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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/06/2018 21:48

Aww snail he/she is adorable Smile

Motheroffourdragons · 04/06/2018 21:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2018 22:11

Akire The Superdrug 5:2 things look heavily processed crap, shamelessly using the 5:2 name
I recommend against protein bars, cereal bars etc - eat food instead

If you want a ready meal, there are so many quite nourishing choices from supermarkets for the calories
Easy ready meals to microwave or grab a salad with protein

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 04/06/2018 22:13

Thanks BCF for the no snacking ever reminder. My thoughts were that saying no snacking in June makes it sound achievable. Then I can say the same for July and before I know it I've done 2 months and no snacking ever sounds doable.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2018 22:20

Well done, snail < pup Envy again >

openup Many 5:2ers, even with 500 FDs, do 14:10 or 16:8 on NFDs, to help stay within TDEE.
That usually involves skipping breakfast.

800 cals work well for people with high TDEE,
i.e. people with a lot of weight to lose / tall & active women / most men
They don't often work for short women, especially with hormonal issues, meno etc
They are especially a problem for those who often exceed TDEE on NFDs

See how you go, but if you find after the initial period that loss is too slow, you can review

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2018 22:27

Very clever on your b2b, borris so that your dd didn't notice
Good example of how to do it

Well done on your FD, calzone, ghost, underpants

blue I meant to ask - do you run a fair bit in those shoes ?

OP posts:
bluerunningshoes · 04/06/2018 22:34

bigchock more walking than running tbh

Homemadehopeful · 04/06/2018 23:41

FD done Grin

Had a Wicked vegan ready meal from Tesco (275 cals) and it was delicious, will be getting it again! Then later had a 2 egg omelette with a green salad (no dressing) followed by 70g skyr yogurt and a few raspberries so probably between 500 - 550 calories.

Iamblossom · 05/06/2018 07:23

Morning all checking in.

snail aw, what flavour is he/she? Very sweet. Thanks for all lovely puppy comments. I do love this thread.

So I was 8 9 this morning, 3 pounds off, and the scales were teetering on 8 8! Am going for my b2b, be interesting if it gets to 8 7 tomorrow! Lowest I've ever got to is 8 5.

Menu today:

Vitamins c drink Coffee coffee tea coffee

Water crackers when required

2 boiled eggs and 0% Greek yogurt before I leave Bristol

THE prawn omelette

Options hot choc

Bed

Feel a lot better today after going to bed at 9pm and dh doing the early shift this morning!

Good luck everyone today.

WreckTangled · 05/06/2018 07:31

Fd for me today. First one in a while and I'm going to do a b2b.

Homemadehopeful · 05/06/2018 07:51

Have had a read through the last few pages (haven't managed the whole time I was away) Welcome to all the newbies, seems to be a few Smile

Snail and Lamb your pups are gorgeous Grin

I like your style Cheshire, no snacking for one month sounds more doable than ever and is a great way to build the habit!

Good luck on your FD Wrecked, yesterday was my first one in two weeks and it was easier than I was expecting so I'm sure you will be fine.

I'm aiming for 'sensible' today, hopefully around the 1000 cal mark...

HLBug · 05/06/2018 08:24

FD for me today - anyone with me? Should be a busy day at work so hopefully shouldn't be too hard (famous last words!!)

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2018 08:26

Well done on your SV, blossom and on managing an early night
< give the pups an extra head rub from me >

Good luck on your b2b, wreck Remember you can average 650 cals per FD

Well done on your FD, homemade

If today is a planned miniFD, that's fine, but best to keep at least 4 NFDs per week for sustainability (unless doing the BSD)
For an NFD, don't restrict calories below TDEE if you feel hungry; just concentrate on no snacking and cut back on junk instead.

OP posts:
Borris · 05/06/2018 08:34

68.1. Only 0.2kg down from last week but at least it’s down.

Naughtysausage · 05/06/2018 08:36

Day 1 of a B2B today.
Waves at Wreck

Planning on nothing but tea until dinner. Got the makings of my first prawn omelette in for tea. I love a good bandwagon to hop on.

Topsyturvey10 · 05/06/2018 08:54

Hi everyone, after lurking for quite sometime I am going to get of my lardy bum and join in. Got on the scales this morning to 11.7 after a weekend of strenuous exercise and a gain of 1.5lb😬 Really got to get to grips with some form of diet/healthy eating as I need to lose 10lbs at least and I keep rewarding myself with cake/alcohol/chocolate and crisps if I do just a smidge of exercise.
Started off well with a coffee do far...🤞

DaisyandTim · 05/06/2018 09:03

Trying again for my FD today 🤞good luck to all the other fasters and well done Blossom and Borris on your losses!

WreckTangled · 05/06/2018 09:05

Thanks everyone. I've got a busy work day so will try to make it until I get home (4:30) then I'll have an early dinner as ds has swimming and if I feel I need something after swimming I'll have enough calories left to have Greek yoghurt and fruit.

HonkyWonkWoman · 05/06/2018 09:38

Joining you all on a Fd today!
Will wait as long as possible, one of two before having a Chunky Veg Soup (already made).
I will also jump on the Band Wagon with THE Prawn Omlette this evening.
Love a doggy 🐕🐕 pic!!!
My old girl is fifteen this year! Bless her! Snoring away!

OohMrDarcy · 05/06/2018 10:58

Morning all.

I'm back and fasting today after my couple of weeks off. Once my Asthma improved again I had yet more upheaval of my parents emigrating last week and was completely not in a space to fast. I ate pretty badly last week, I'll be honest! Currently showing a 4lb gain but I'm back on it now and planning to get back into the good space I was in before.

So - today is a FD. I'm glugging the water and I'm saving myself for dinner tonight. Got hair dresser at lunchtime so should be easy to avoid food then.

Off to check back a few pages and catch up!

snailhunter · 05/06/2018 11:03

Thank you all for the dog love and for the TOTM tracking tips!

Good luck to fasters today. NSV for me today but I've got a long (75 min) run planned - my first on an NSV straight after a fast day. Am planning to go at around 4pm, after school run, so will need a nice big lunch to keep me fuelled without snacking!

Iamblossom · 05/06/2018 12:42

For god's sake Angry

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days
noideawhattocallmyself · 05/06/2018 12:52

Well I'm back after my holidays with a 2lb gain - it's soooo easy to slip back into bad habits. Sad

Iamblossom · 05/06/2018 13:29

I'd be pleased with just a 2 pound gain!!!

CheshireSplat · 05/06/2018 13:40

blossom step away from the pastries!!!!!

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