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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/06/2018 18:49

Welcome newbies Smile and good luck... biggest tip would be no snacking, it really does make a difference.

Fd done.... got boiled egg, tomato and gherkin for dinner followed by some Greek yog and should finish on 506 or therabouts. So happy to have an fd under my belt as I've felt awful since the overindulgence at the weekend Shock

Well done Monday fasters, nearly end of the day....

Might do a mini weds and then second fd on Friday.

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 19:11

Kitchen closed on about 730.

Had tescos Mexican chilli bean soup for tea (252 cals for a 600g pot) and some leftover tiger bread fell into my mouth at the same time.

Higher than I wanted and obviously over the 650 a b2b allows but the way I am feeling after my 5am puppy wake up call, quite frankly I'll take it, and I have swum and walked the dog today.

MORE hours than normal on a day you are trying not to eat is torture!!

Will hopefully have an easier time of it tomorrow as am in Bristol all day and therefore busier.

Fist bump to all fellow Monday fasters, nearly there.

Motheroffourdragons · 04/06/2018 19:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

hoochymama1 · 04/06/2018 19:28

Well done fellow Monday fasters Smile
Kitchen closed at 720. It's been a chaotic day, but drank lots. Will do b2b tomorrow. Was doing b2b on 500 calories each, which was too little for me. Will aim to just drink tea/bovril/squash tomorrow and have a meal in the night.
Must pick up a pack of prawns for the famous 5:2 omelette Wink
Just thinking of how to fill the time between now and bed. May have a nice redbush tea later on Grin

bluerunningshoes · 04/06/2018 19:33

kitchen closed at just over 500.
now off to make myself some herval tea, before I get more appetite.

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 19:35

hoochy we can hold hands tomorrow.

Love that the prawn omelette is famous! I will of course be having one tomorrow evening!!

cakegoblin · 04/06/2018 19:39

Mini DONE - kitchen closed at 866. Well done everyone! Mondays are probably not my ideal days for fasting.
Yep the prawn omelette is a staple here now too! Must dust off my actual 5:2 book and find some alternatives at some point Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/06/2018 19:41

Well done everyone lamb I'm sure it's the law that if you mention you have a puppy you have to post a photo Grin

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 19:58

forty your wish is my command:

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 20:01

Blossompup1 and blossompup2

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days
Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 20:03

11 weeks old tomorrow

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days
CheshireSplat · 04/06/2018 20:11

Have just had a famous prawn omelette. But pimped it up with mussels and spinach. I think the mussels were a mistake and I'll save them for a tomatoey stewey thing instead.

Had a slice of bread and butter too.

Only 2 cups of tea and one Bovril before tea means the kitchen is shut on 555. Not having my usual 5 or 6 cups of tea has helped.

And I've bought Skya yoghurt so am taking lots of hints and tips from this thread! Need to clean teeth soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2018 20:17

Oh what adorable pups, blossom Labradors ?
We probably all have serious pup-envy now < Envy >
They should take your mind of noibbling, because they'll be nibbling on your fingers instead, with their needle-like baby teeth.

Well done, *blossom, blue, 43, hoochy, goblin, cheshire
*
hoochy & other b2bers: Stick to around 650 on b2b - 500 is too little for sustainability.

motherof4 3 miniFds per week is fine Smile - in fact it's a system I recommend to those who often can't manage 500 FDs, or can't manage 5 NFDs.
It gives around the same weight loss as regular 5:2 with 2 FDs - assuming for both systems that you are mindful on NFDs not to eat back the deficit on

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 20:20

Puppy is a black lab.

Other one is a 1 year old miniature dachshund.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/06/2018 20:31

iamb they are ADORABLE and I'm very jealous.....

Akire · 04/06/2018 20:39

Has anyone tried the 5:2 protein bars and noddles from Superdrug? Saw them the other day they didn’t look v appealing but 250 would be easy to grab

calzone · 04/06/2018 20:55

FD done ✅

😀😀😀😀😀

Waitrose ricotta and spinach cannelloni for 300 calories
Lettuce and tomatoes
Jelly 84 calories
Light custard 113 calories

FriendlyGhost · 04/06/2018 21:08

Back on it today after a week off and far too much food, I will catch up with the thread shortly. A successful FD today to get me back on the wagon. I had been feeling a little out of control with my eating because staying with family and having meals cooked for me it was hard to see how many calories I was consuming. I feel a lot better after today but I know I need to deal with weeks away with family and holidays better if i’m going to make it a successful way of life. At the moment I eat everything in sight as soon as i’m out of routine.

FriendlyGhost · 04/06/2018 21:08

Lamb those puppies are adorable 😍😍😍

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 04/06/2018 21:28

Lamb I have total puppy envy!! They are gorgeous!

In other more on topic news I totally nailed my FD. lunch was some skyr yoghurt. Dinner was salad with Tuna and a little bit of grated cheddar for extra yum. Not totally sure of the calories but I am super pleased with myself. Not sure what the plan is tomorrow... I might meet a friend for lunch. If I don't then I'll go for a B2b...

bluerunningshoes · 04/06/2018 21:32

so cute the dogs. they are so worth the early morning, I'm sure.

well done, fasters. take it easy tonight and make it an early one.

Borris · 04/06/2018 21:37

Just done b2b sun and today. The hardest yet as it is our half term so we’ve had a packed lunch today. Plus I don’t really want dd to know about calorie counting just yet. Usually she’s with her dad on a mon and tues but due to half term I’ve had her since sun lunchtime for the full week (yay!). I managed yesterday fine as she didn’t notice me missing lunch and that left the full 650 cals for a fairly normal dinner.

Today was tougher as we were out with a picnic. But packed a tiny sandwich for me and a 38 cal pack of popcorn for when she had crisps. We both had Coke Zero and fruit and I only bought her an ice cream (a real milestone for me as I’d always have one too). Then we had jacket potatoes for tea (small and no cheese with mine) and baked beans.

Am relieved that she hasn’t noticed and that we can now get on with a sensible but not fasting half term Smile

openupmyeagereyes · 04/06/2018 21:38

I managed to not succumb to any extra treats today, I’m not quite sure how! I felt a bit hungry before lunch but shortly afterwards was ravenous for a couple of hours before it subsided. I was tempted to follow dinner with an apple (or worse) but held fast. My FD’s are generally very long as ds is a hideous early riser.

I feel I should caveat by restating that I bought the ‘new’ 5:2 cookbook which advocates 800 cals per day with a 14:8 fast. I’ve been fasting around 18 hours as not eating until lunchtime. Once I’m more used to it I may try 500 cals.

Well done to all of today’s fasters and good luck to those of you fasting tomorrow. I’m definitely looking forward to a day of normal eating.

openupmyeagereyes · 04/06/2018 21:40

Gorgeous dogs lambSmile

snailhunter · 04/06/2018 21:42

Kitchen closed at around 500, hooray. Easiest FD for me for a while! Oh, and if we are posting puppy pics...

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days