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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2018 20:15

That's a good tactic, duck changing your FDs to those NFDs that are typically a problem
It's why I still usually do a weekend FD

Welcome back, cheshire and everyone else who took a half-term break

OP posts:
NotLeanButMean · 03/06/2018 20:56

Thanks BCF, and for your lovely comment on my other thread ThanksThanks had a good weekend with good choices. Hopefully will see the 12's and the 10% in the next week or two!

Felt so much more comfortable in shorts this weekend. Even got into a swimming costume Shock only in my back garden, but it felt good! With all the other upheaval and stressors in my life, I'm feeling so positive about this.

Oh, also my tape measure came. I measured last October at my mums and recorded on MFP, and I gained a couple of stone (!!!) before I started losing weight in January, so got loads bigger. Just measured and I'm 5 inches down waist wise (which I know is the most important measure). 2.5 down on the hips. Actually, looking at my weight, I was only 1lb heavier in October. I'm wondering if the exercise I've been doing is making me more shapely, and possibly my muscle is increasing, hence the inch loss with a similar weight! Hope so Grin I want to lose 4stone 7, so I'm worried about loose skin, hence why I'm trying to up the exercise to help with this. Is this a good plan, BCF?

NotLeanButMean · 03/06/2018 20:58

And thanks 43. Lovely NSV from your DH Grin

openupmyeagereyes · 03/06/2018 22:02

Not a bad weekend food wise. My meals have been pretty similar but I’ve been more mindful of what I’m eating, I think, and I’ve definitely snacked less.

I dropped a couple of pounds after my second FD BUT I’ve started my period during the last week too so some of that will be bloat. I’ll have a better idea of where I am after this week’s FDs. Planning the first one tomorrow.

Well done to all the weekend fasters. Congrats to those losing inches and getting into smaller dresses. Welcome back to those who have been away.

calzone · 03/06/2018 23:03

Fasted on Saturday and fasting tomorrow.

Forgot the no snacking rule but spoiled today with prosecco.

Tomorrow is a new day.

Trenzalor · 04/06/2018 06:36

Monday and Thursday used to be my FDs so I’m jumping back in today. I’m already hungry. I’m looking forward to my body regulating itself again. Good luck to the other fasters.

quackingduck222 · 04/06/2018 07:52

Mean - wow That inch loss is a great NSV 5 inches is absolutely loads especially on your waist. This WOL is amazing for inch loss I used to do mine weekly and the results were amazing. I’m going to try and reassure you on the loose skin I’ve lost 4 stone and only started properly working out in January and the loose skin is minimal. A tiny bit on tummy Perhaps a inch and a handful on my inner thigh but it’s still improving now.

I’m the same as you Mean I bought shorts this week wore them in the house but would definitely wear them out. I never wear shorts in this country.

Eyes well done on your loss, TOTM definitely messes with the scales. Good luck for your FD.

Calzone you are right today is a new day good luck with your fast.

Trenz - good luck for your FD too.

I’m also fasting today and plan to have a mini Thursday to keep me out of trouble. Good luck to all today’s fasters.

badger82 · 04/06/2018 07:52

FD today after an indulgent weekend of tapas at Barrafina and breakfast at Shake Shack! Plus lots of wine.
Aiming to smash through the 65kg barrier this week/next week Smile

bluerunningshoes · 04/06/2018 08:07

good luck fasters.
fd today here.

the tape measure round the waist here def shows more loss than the scales. (but weight loss wasn't my concern anyway)

I needed to get the belt out for my trousers!

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 08:13

Fasting here too.

Which is harder when the day starts at 5.20! Bloody puppy.

Aiming for a b2b today and tomorrow and have all food plugged into MFP.

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 08:14

Please though as have regained only 3 of the 5 pounds I lost two weeks ago on my last b2b, so am still under 9 stone despite 2 weeks off fasting including half term and ALOT of wine...and snacks....

I have exercised basically everyday though.

Clutterfreeintraining · 04/06/2018 08:20

Well that didn’t last long - motivation and willpower seem to have done a runner Sad
Was supposed to have my childminding inspection last Wednesday so decided to fast because I felt too nauseous to eat. Inspector cancelled mid-morning and it was like some kind of green light to eat Blush and haven’t really stopped BlushBlush
I’m such a self-saboteur.
FD today. I’ve got my dinner planned but not sure what to make for ds - at nearly 16, he might have to start making his own on FDs

CheshireSplat · 04/06/2018 08:22

Welk done blue !

I did all my measurements, not sure how accurate they are though! If I measured somewhere 3 times I seemed to get 4 different measurements!

Am putting down a marker. I've faffed around for months on 5:2, and have only lost about 5 lbs in 5 months. I was 11 stone 0 3/4 this morning. On Monday 2 July, I will be 10 stone 7.

I'm going into diet mode, so 2 proper FDs a week (I sometimes fall off the second one), and no snacking for June on NFDs. The only exception, may be one day for my birthday. We have quite a few social events, but at none of those will anyone be pegging my nose and feeding me lard, so no excuses.

I think because I've been successful initially on diets before but put weight back on, I've been wary of treating this like a diet. However, 5 months of taking it easy hasn't really worked. I have realised that I'll just need to eat less for the rest of my life. And that's okay!

Wish me luck!!!!

Today I'm just going to survive til tea on water, marmite and cups of tea.

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 08:29

Good luck cheshire!

clutter why not bung in a baked potato for DS?

I've never measured although do wish I had.

When I am at my lowest I do notice a definite waist indentation.

Apologies in advance for the endless posting today and tomorrow, I find it helps to keep me on the straight and narrow and work is quiet..HmmSmile

Clutterfreeintraining · 04/06/2018 08:48

Iamblossom - I used the last of the jacket potatoes on last night’s tea but have got a bag of stuffed pasta he can have.

Trenzalor · 04/06/2018 08:51

lambblossom I’m usually the same - I post a lot on FDs to keep myself focused. As it’s my first for a couple of years I’m actually worried I might forget!

snailhunter · 04/06/2018 08:54

Morning all! Checking in for FD after very indulgent but great fun few days away. Managed one FD last week but looking forward to getting back into the routine now kids back at school. And TOTM turned up, hooray, so seems like my cycle is back to being semi-regular, which is a relief. I'm much better at coping with PMS if I can look at my calendar and say oh, it's just PMS, my life is actually not shit and I don't hate everyone :)

Hockneypool · 04/06/2018 09:05

Morning all checking in for the week too. Have planned fd for Tuesday and Thursday because in meetings all day and will be busy.

Goals for the week
no booze
No snacking
2 litres of water a day
Some Exercise everyday

Think that should keep me out of trouble! Going to measure too.

Hope everyone has a good week.

DaisyandTim · 04/06/2018 09:37

Morning all, just checking in for a FD here, 1st one back at around 500. Hoping to get rid of the last of the gain this week. Will probably do 2nd FD on Thurs but just hanging on to deciding until I see how today goes. Hope everyone has a good day!

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 09:44

already struggling as am so tired!

CheshireSplat · 04/06/2018 09:50

Oh blossom it's so hard. Hang on in there, and then at least you'll be tried and slim!

snail love your description of PMT! 😂😂😂 I went into the coil a while ago and I swear it's made me a complete psycho once a month. Properly furious. I started a little mood diary and it's really helped - unhappy/irritable at TOTM, it's hormones, try and be nice. Unhappy/irritable and not TOTM, get a grip and try and be nice!

Iamblossom · 04/06/2018 10:10

thanks Cheshire. Will do my best. Have had 4 water crackers so far, so haven't abandoned yet.

Naughtysausage · 04/06/2018 11:25

Morning all.
Not having a FD today as had an exam this morning and sometimes I get a bit daft on FD'S. Planning one tomorrow though.

For TOTM I use an app called Clue. You can plug in all sorts, spotty days, sad days, amorous days, keep away or I'll hit you with a stick days and then it'll warn you when those days are coming up if you like. Tres useful.

Good luck Monday fasters. You can do it!
Back away from the crackers blossom.

CroakingCrocus · 04/06/2018 12:39

Debating whether to turn today into a fast day or a b2b. Am very jet lagged but have only had coffee (3) with milk today and am not feeling very hungry.

My one worry is waking up in the middle of the night hungry.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

Inlovewithchocolate · 04/06/2018 13:32

I am a yo yo dieter..... Been all my life so hard to break the cycle. But this is an encouraging friendly chat on here so am going to try and focus. Very inspirational losses on here