Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
calzone · 30/05/2018 17:47

Badger......go and shave your legs.

bluerunningshoes · 30/05/2018 18:21

I'm probably too late, but badger you can have cheese tomorrow :)

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2018 19:11

Stay focused, badger If today is an FD, then tomorrow you can have cheese on toast for breakfast

Wittow BSD is very tough - 800 cals daily, strict low carb, no booze or junk - so even if you follow Mosely's BSD rules, you may feel very hungry for the first week or 2, or longer
BSD might be impossible with typical WW type of carby food like pasta
If you don't low carb, then weight loss would be slower and you would probably be hungry all the time.

5:2 works with WW, or any other kind of food preference: low carb, high carb, vegan, veggie, paleo …

I'm certainly not hungry on NFDs, except the hour before meals
BUT
that is how people lived for millenia - snacks were only pushed since about 1980, when Big Food thought of that great way to increase profits

I was born mid 1950s and I had no snacks growing up, not did I know anyone who did

Those who may feel hungry on 5:2 NFDs are those who have been overweight a long time and need to retrain their "normal" eating to around TDEE
because they have got used to eating far more than their body can burn.
However, without that retraining, on whatever diet they choose, their weight will continue to increase for the rest of their lives.

OP posts:
badger82 · 30/05/2018 19:22

Thanks for the support guys. Today wasn't a FD but even though the snacking urge was strong! I often do that if I have a SV it's like a celebration something. I did have a mini snack fail but it's a FD tomorrow so not too much damage done and we can't be PERFECT can we.....right?!

openupmyeagereyes · 30/05/2018 19:55

Well done Badger.

So I’ve finished my first FD. Well nearly, it’s not bedtime yet. It wasn’t too bad though I’m sure they won’t all be easy.

I need some slight tweaks as mentioned - try to hold out until lunchtime. I think eggs as a first meal are a good way to go, maybe an omelette with salad or the veggie scrambled eggs in the cook book, though I loathe green peppers so would need to substitute something. Dinners can be planned better in the future too. Today I just wanted to make what I’d already planned. It wasn’t as tasty with the changes but was tolerable.

Tomorrow I will finish my menu plan and go food shopping for the week. I’m quite excited, it’s a bit of a challenge.

I hope everyone else had a good day, FD or otherwise.

HonkyWonkWoman · 30/05/2018 20:34

Nfd and enjoyed a carvery at 1, had the meat, loads of veg and but if gravy.
Been full since but if I get hungry I'll just have a piece of chicken and a Bovril drink.
Fd tomorrow and meals prepared.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/05/2018 21:45

Well done open try and get an early night.

Good resolve there badger

Mini fd done at around 960cals, pleased with that. Fd tomorrow, chicken, tomatoes, cucumber and pickled onions for lunch, not sure yet what to have for dinner, possibly a mushroom omelette.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2018 21:49

Well done on your 1st FD, open

How are any other newbies doing ? Smile

OP posts:
Borris · 30/05/2018 22:14

Well day 2 of my b2b done. I don't know if I've made poor meal choices but for some reason I'm way hungrier than I was on the previous 2 weeks I've done it! Or maybe it means its working?

plus3 · 30/05/2018 22:15

Well done everyone ...I can’t quite believe how easy it is at the moment. Weighing myself this morning (after my FD) I was 12st 2lb. This is 8lb off, but I have set my official weigh day as Monday, so it will probably go up a little. FD as Tues/Thurs.
I feel lighter - clothes are fitting better...just not convinced it will last or continue to be easy. I do want it to though.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/05/2018 22:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

comehomemax · 30/05/2018 22:34

I'm only on week 2 so it's early days but I feel pretty positive. I am much more aware of bot grazing on normal days. I don't have scales (yet) but have 2 pairs of trousers that I'm aiming for. One is a size 12 which I can wear but bite around the waste. The other is a size 10 that is about 3inches too small. I'm hoping by end if summer, I can get into the smaller pair.

I had a fast day question - am I ok to eat a small early lunch and small dinner as long as I'm inside cals limit or should I be trying for a long gap between meals (so eat breakfast and dinner instead)?

bluerunningshoes · 30/05/2018 22:42

comehome
whatever works for you.
I tend to have a small glas of kefir in the morning (100kal) and then an almost normal size dinner with family in the evening.
spicy yogi/chai teas during the day and a mug of bouillon at lunchtime.
I fearI would fall down the snack route if I had a small lunch.

Naughtysausage · 31/05/2018 07:11

Checking in with a 1lb weight loss this week. That's 7.25lbs in 5 weeks and I'm really pleased.

Yesterday's B2B FD went a bit over, Tuesdays fast was 500 and Wednesday was 800. It averages out at 650, but I do feel bad. (Somebody else cooked me dinner yesterday and I didn't want to be too rude) Is it as much of a cheat as I feel it is?

hoochymama1 · 31/05/2018 07:31

Welcome comehome Smile
Oo I have lost 2lb, that takes me down to 10st 4, a weight I haven't seen since way back when Grin
But, I STS for two weeks, so keep going Wink

HonkyWonkWoman · 31/05/2018 08:16

Fd today!
Have ready, Chunky Veg Soup which I will eat as late as possible for lunch.
Then Prawn omelette and Salad for Dinner.
A couple of Bovril in between and that should be fine.
Not much time this week as looking after Dgsons but will be more adventurous with recipes on Fd's next week.
Good luck, anyone Fd today. What are you having?

HLBug · 31/05/2018 08:23

NSV - officially a size 6 or 8 in most shops now Smile very annoying however to go into Cos and find that XS is too big!! That's a whole shop completely gone!!

I was planning a FD today but I'm feeling a tad delicate hungover so that probably means only the one FD for me this week. Fingers crossed that doesn't mean too much movement on the scales.

bluerunningshoes · 31/05/2018 08:28

fd today
have the feeling it will be difficult. so warm and humid

cakegoblin · 31/05/2018 08:54

Checking in for first of my b2b fast days today - have been away with family this week (missed you all!) so had more BBQs, booze, cafe visits and fish and chips than usual but have been sooo much more careful than usual - icy slimline tonic water with only the tiniest drops of gin when drinking, mainly plates of salad with just small portions of BBQ meat and I avoided the chips. Counting everything on MFP has necessitated some guesswork but I have just weighed myself and the stone is still off so I must have been doing something right! Well done everyone on their losses and first days - the number of compliments I have had this week have been SO motivating and I'm sure you will be feeling the same!

Just wondering how confident you all are estimating the amounts of foods you eat when out, or which are made for you by others? I am considering getting a cup measure and making more use of the American cup size cal portions on MFP as I feel like I'm making wild guesses with weights, whether oz or grammes.

DaisyandTim · 31/05/2018 09:08

Well done Naughty And Hoochy on the losses! And v envious Bug of the clothes size, not sure i’ll ever get there but I am large of frame!
Good luck Honky and *Blue on the FD - I’m on day 2 of my mini b2b (800 cals each day) and doing ok so far although feeling a bit hungrier today than I did yesterday! Back to work next week after my sick leave and will move back down to 500 cal FD’s then.
Thanks to whoever mentioned the Happy Scale app, I’ve down loaded it and plugged in my starting weight and my current weight and it says im 34% through my 3rd milestone which is very motivating!
Cake I’m someone who definitely needs re educating about what my normal TDEE should look like as I very easily overeat if I’m not super careful about monitoring my calories, however this is getting easier each week and I am becoming much more mindful about what I eat and the choices I make, before I would have ploughed through a day (and ploughed through the food) without really thinking about it, now I try (don’t always succeed) to plan ahead even if it’s just to think I’m likely to eat a bigger meal later if going for BBQ, what can I do now (bfast/lunch) to manage that. So then it matters less at the meal out if I don’t know the exact cals/ I’m making guesstimates. Sounds like you’re doing brilliant and you made really good choices!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2018 09:36

Congrats on your SV and clothes NSV, plus
Loss usually slows down after the initial drop, but stay focused and you should continue to see the downward trend

comehome Fit the FD meals in to your lifestyle & preferences, so long as there is no junk or booze.
Some 5:2ers just have supper; others have lunch & supper; Mosely had breakfast & supper - to eat with his family

Well done on your b2b, borris
Some fast days are just tougher than others, for no discernible reason
However, did you have neough protein ?
Sometimes it may be due to what you had the previous NFD - for tea & supper, avoid junk & booze and concentrate on nutritious food, with plenty of protein & veg

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2018 09:45

Well done on your SV, hoochy

A very motivating size NSV on your maintenance, bug
Sorry that you've now disqualified yourself from an entire clothes store !

Well done on your compliments NSV, goblin and on staying so disciplined during your vacation
Those good habits of heathy salads and protein, with little alcohol - and no snacks between meals - will help you lose bodyfat and to then maintain longterm at goal

OP posts:
badger82 · 31/05/2018 10:04

FD today. Hungry already but powering through. Am going to eat one meal around 5pm as am riding this eve and want to have a bit of energy for that!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/05/2018 10:12

Morning everyone, well done to plus naughty hoochy on their SVs - fantastic work Grin

mother good luck for weigh in, hope you get your 1lb. I'm hoping for a loss tomorrow also Smile

naughty I think 650 per day is what you are meant to have on b2b so you have nailed it Smile

Wow bug a size 6 ponders how that is even possible

Well done on your mindful eating cakes thats a great NSV

FD here today, bit peckish after my mini-fd yesterday but nothing but tea and squash as yet. Have some chicken breast, tomatoes and pickled onions for lunch, and maybe a couple of apricots, really looking forward to them.

Hope everyone has a good day, cloudy and warm here - don't you just love British summertime Grin

CocosMummy · 31/05/2018 10:58

First FD yesterday went well, had a proper breakfast this morning in the hopes of not snacking and making it to lunch. Good luck to everyone doing FD today.