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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 28/05/2018 21:51

Well done Akire, blue, Mirror, 43 and ll the other Monday fasters

Brilliant 5% milestone SV, clear Star !
and going down a clothes size - that's fat burned away
Good idea to slash screen time, but do pop in every couple of weeks to say how you are doing

OP posts:
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 28/05/2018 22:37

Planning to fast tomorrow but I have a summer cold. Is that ok?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/05/2018 06:10

smiled Fine to fast with a cold if you feel reasonably OK
Just don't (deliberately) fast if you have a fever, D&V or any serious illness

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/05/2018 06:50

Excellent sv clear and you inspired me to work out mine, I'm just 0.9% away from my 10% Grin

Good luck Tues fasters

openupmyeagereyes · 29/05/2018 07:13

Good morning all.

For the last few days I’ve been pondering starting this woe. I only have half a stone of weight to lose but I’m also interested in the health and longevity benefits. Being 46 I am also heading into the menopause in the next 5 years or so so although I only have half a stone to lose I know things are only going to get harder. My dm and older dsis’s are all heavier than me, we were all very slim in our younger pre-dc days.

My main question is around maintenance and how that works for those of you in that phase. Do you continue to 5:2 or do 6:1? How do you ensure you don’t lose more weight?

So today I will weigh in and take measurements. I eat relatively healthily most of the time but have put on weight post dc due to too many snacks, probably too large portions and too little exercise.

I need to plan my first FD for tomorrow, maybe. I’m a sahm so preparing food multiple times a day. I downloaded the new 5:2 cook book and am going to do fast days of 14:10 with 800 cal allowance.

I’ve been reading the 5:2 exercise thread and need to pull my finger out. I have a cross trainer at home that I need to use a few times a week and endless dvds. Tricky this week with 4 yo ds off nursery for half term so I think this week I will focus on daily strengthening exercises and try to use the cross trainer twice for 20 mins.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 29/05/2018 07:17

Thanks bigC Smile

snailhunter · 29/05/2018 09:21

Welcome open! I'm only a couple of years younger than you, also heading into menopause territory, and I've gone from 10st 13lb to 9st 10lb on this WOE.

Akire · 29/05/2018 09:32

Has anyone noticed if using pounds to stone calculators they are wrong?

So 155 is 11.1
154 is 11
153 is 10.9?????

Seen it on loads of google tables obviously 1 pound can’t be worth 4.5!

badger82 · 29/05/2018 09:36

Good luck fasters today. Bank hol weekend was moderate, so hoping for two good fast days and a SV this week! Halo

bluerunningshoes · 29/05/2018 09:38

akire I think the us used different pounds, maybe that's where this is coming from?

noideawhattocallmyself · 29/05/2018 09:48

haha BCF I know - I'm so impatient and now I've found a WOE I can stick to and works I want instant results :)
I'm doing my first ever B2B today and tomorrow as I'm away from Thursday to Monday so won't have quiet as much control.

Akire the stones to lbs calculcators do it as a decimal of a stone so 155 is 11.1 stone which is 11st 1.4lb and 153 is 19.9 stone so 10st 12.6lb - really need to go to 2-3 decimal places to be more accurate.
11st 1lb is 11.071 st (if you see what I mean - can you tell I'm not a maths teacher!)
Hope everyone has a good few days!

plus3 · 29/05/2018 10:18

Good morning - feeling slightly despondent this morning... only managed 1 fast day last week as I had to go away for a conference for work & despite minimal alcohol, no snacking I have put on 1 lb.
Fasting today & feeling really hungry.

snailhunter · 29/05/2018 10:22

FD for me today - will be the only one as we are going away on Thurs and fasting will basically be completely impossible. Don't worry about the 1lb blips, plus3 - look at the overall trends.

I'm staving off hunger with a ginger tea and then a trip to the tip. Living the dream...

MirrorMirror21 · 29/05/2018 10:30

Weigh first thing after your fast day plus and I bet you'll have lost!

HonkyWonkWoman · 29/05/2018 10:48

FD today, tomorrow will be weigh day and I'll have done one week 5/2
I've got Chunky Veg Soup ready for when I'm hungry.
Then later on I'll have a Prawn Omlette and Salad.

I've got some Kale, I might have some of that as well.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/05/2018 11:13

Welcme, open Smile and good luck on your 1st FD tomorrow
There are quite a few of us around the meno stage here, as this is when other weight loss methods often stop working

Around this life stage and with only ½ stone to lose, you may find loss slower than most folk here, but be patient and you can get to goal
Once you are adapted to fasting, you might get better results with 500 cal FDs

Those of us maintaining have a variety of plans:
6:1 or 13:1 keeps off the weight is you have learned to eat about TDEE on NFDs
However, some of us prefer to keep to 5:2 and eat back the deficit on NFDs, especially for those who are short & have low TDEE
Maintainers usually have 800 FDs rather than 500 FDs.

OP posts:
openupmyeagereyes · 29/05/2018 12:32

Thanks all. I’m a bit nervous about the FD, not the 14 hours but only having two meals across the rest of the day. The pre-dc me wouldn’t have found it a problem but I’ve got so used to eating more frequently since being at home. Still, if it was easy everyone would be doing it and all that...

My current bmi is 24 and my tdee is only 1733. I’m not used to counting calories so will try to do so only on FDs and aim to be more mindful of what I eat on NFDs. I’ll see how I get on. If I’m not losing anything then I’ll have to be more strict on NFDs until I get a sense of what makes up 1700 cals.

CheeseToasty · 29/05/2018 13:45

Hi All. Can I join?
I have been following 5:2 for 5 week now and have lost about 10lbs so far. I have had a go at 5:2 in the past but have given up before getting to goal. I really want to make this time. I have 2-3 stone more to lose.
I am finding today's fast really tough as I am off work this week. Just gave the kids lunch and really want to eat! Roll on dinner time

bluerunningshoes · 29/05/2018 14:01

don't worry open I was anxious as well before the first fd.
mainly about stomach noises in the office. it was absolutely fine though.

have bouillon powder or bovril so you can make yourself a hot tasty mug when you get hungry.

openupmyeagereyes · 29/05/2018 14:14

Thanks bluerunningshoes. I have bullion powder in the cupboard so I’m good to go!

Well done on your weight loss so far CheeseToasty. Cheese is a massive weakness of mine. I can’t help snacking on it while I’m cutting/grating it up for other things.

I’m menu planning for next week and working out what to eat for my first couple of FD. I’ve managed to tweak tomorrow’s planned korma to within 500 cals by substituting coconut powder that I bought for coconut milk. It may not be quite as good but I’ll save the milk for NFD. I’ll have to eat it with veggie rice but that’s ok. Jamie’s 5 ingredients book is being quite helpful for the next one as it conveniently has the calorie info for each recipe.

snailhunter · 29/05/2018 15:22

I find the BBC Good Food app and magazine really useful as it usually has calories per portion as well. Some of their instagrammable cakes/shakes/puddings are unbelievably high in cals but they also have some great low-cal stuff too.

Inlovewithchocolate · 29/05/2018 16:29

Hi all. I have got about 20lbs to lose. Is this doable on this diet. Can you let me know how you all do a fast day

Naughtysausage · 29/05/2018 16:39

Hello all!
Just checking in on day 1 of another B2B after a relaxed bank holiday weekend. Bit peckish but looking forward to eggs and avocados for tea.
Approaching TOTM so trying to remember not to worry too much about the scales this week.

NainAGP · 29/05/2018 16:45

Hello all, what do we think is a good plain yogurt? I'm never sure what to look for in the per 100g chart, can't find full fat either though I heard it is better. Thanks.

Borris · 29/05/2018 16:52

Logging in for day 1 of a b2b. I’ve been so busy at work that this is the first time I’ve had to log on. But also not had time to eat.

So far I’ve had a poached egg and small slice of bread, plus a mini bag of salted popcorn and a pear. I make that about 220 Cals so 380 for dinner - roasted veg and a chicken breast I think.

Good luck to other fasters.