Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2018 18:35

That's a good NSV, cakegoblin you have learned to fit in a feast and then stop, without the "sod it" guilt factor causing a spiral of mindless eating.

Guilt and social isolation are destructive, but the idea on 5:2 is to enjoy social occasions as part of our WOE
That makes it sustainable longterm

Hot water bottle and an early night sounds a good idea, 43
Hopefully your totm will be less painful tomorrow

Those 300 FD calories were obviously a good choice, keeping you so full, wreck
Maybe a nice cup of unsweetened herbal tea and an early night too.

That's a good FD menu too, borris

Nearly there, fasters Smile

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 21/05/2018 18:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

yumyumpoppycat · 21/05/2018 19:05

Hello Monday fasters. Think I have scraped in at a 1000 today. I am another on totm and also in need of a week of strict MFP. No real weightloss for last fast so I need to keep a stricter eye on things and not just guess my cals.

Well done on NSV cake of not catastrophizing!

Clutterfreeintraining · 21/05/2018 19:12

FD1 for me today. I managed to last most of the day with just a cup of coffee and lots of water. Got to 4.30 and had to eat my dinner though.
Going to collect ds at 9pm so just have to keep away from the kitchen until then and then I’ll go straight to bed.
Had originally planned a b2b but will make a final decision in the morning Grin

Iamblossom · 21/05/2018 19:25

Evening. Day 1 of b2b complete.

Deviation from prawn omelette plan, have decided to have that tomorrow. This evening instead have had a pot of tescos Mexican chilli bean soup with some chunks of chicken dh had boiled for the dog!Grin

Borris · 21/05/2018 20:18

Prawn omelette sounds nice. Do you use whole eggs or just whites? And is it just egg, milk and prawn?

DaisyandTim · 21/05/2018 20:53

Day 1 done coming in at 833 which I’m pleased about, had a near miss earlier but managed to distract myself until could sort dinner! Had a super tasty paneer and spinach curry for dinner!

MazDazzle · 21/05/2018 20:53

Day 1 of b2b complete. Had soup for lunch, then chicken salad for dinner. Usually I save all of my calories for dinner, but a friend invited me and the kids over for lunch. I had a small bowl of broth and resisted the bread. Said no thanks to biscuits with my coffee. I’m not feeling particularly strongwilled tonight, so I’m off to bed to resist temptation!

Well done to all of those who’ve fasted today. Nearly there now.

Iamblossom · 21/05/2018 20:57

borris I literally crack two eggs in a jug, mix in the packet of prawns, squirt some fry light in a pan and dump it all in with some salt and pepper. Takes minutes, and makes a surprisingly large omelette.

I have it with lettuce, cherry toms, beetroot, radishes, pickled onions. Yum.

Iamblossom · 21/05/2018 20:57

Oh and celery. Don't forget the celery. Grin

Iamblossom · 21/05/2018 20:57

maz will of iron, well done. 💪

quackingduck222 · 21/05/2018 21:13

Cheshire - I’ve been thinking about you today. I’m wondering if there is something in your week that’s tripping you up. A few days ago I searched my early day posts from 2 years ago on here too see how much I’ve changed my ways since back then. I was having a few bad weeks and BCF said MFP. I read packets but I didn’t read them properly mine was rhubarb crumble I made it and thought it’s fruit and a bit of topping can’t be that high. Wrong the crumble topping packet read in small print calories per 1/12 portion turns out I was using a whole packet that alone contained 1000 cals every few days I was having it. I’m not overly fussed by it and not had it since. That with the rhubarb was pretty much my TDEE for the day. I’ve also done similar with homemade flapjacks with the condensed milk being stupidly high in cals. It may be something similar to my mistake.

Akire welcome, another one to join the 5ft 3 club Grin

Smiled toning up will definitely improve the appearance. I’ve had good results with dry body brushing on my stomach so I’m also now doing it on my arms as I have loose skin underneath.

Snail - wow I’m impressed half marathon training are you booked in for a event that your working towards? I saw that article too I wondered if it was scaremongering as everything I’ve seen has been so positive.

Oh Lamb is 6:1 not working for you? I’ve found it quite hit and miss tbh some weeks 6:1 works and other times it doesn’t but I’ve started to log it in a notepad as I think it’s down to what I’m eating rather than calories IYSWIM low carb high protein and fat all week and il usually loose as soon as the carbs / crap creeps back in I gain even despite being within TDEE.

Daisy- 8lbs really isn’t bad over that length of time, for me that’s a good weekend Grin in all seriousness a couple of good fast days behind you should definitely make a big dent in that. Good luck, and well done for coming back.

Friendly- well done on your 6miler, especially in this heat. I hope your FD has gone well.

Bug - you will do great with maintenance it’s nice having a bit more freedom but knowing anything can be undone with a FD does relive the pressure a bit. It’s finding what works for you and it is flexible. Be interesting to see how it goes for you. I was very cautious the first month or two as I was petrified of the unknown.

Naughty - hope you’ve had a good FD.

Goblin - 1000cals for a meal out is excellent stuff. And yes it’s good stuff this 5:2 business I honestly can’t praise it enough.

Borris - sounds like your having a good FD, I would try and add a bit of protein in your evening meal next time if you can. I found early on ditching the carbs for protein & veg / salad buys you huge and very filling dinners.

43 - keep going, and drink loads. I’ve felt the exact same today but it confused me as I thought I had TOTM last week but seems I’m having it again this week as I’ve swelled up like a balloon.

MotherOf - honestly don’t worry to much, as long as you can get a fast in the next couple of days you will be fine.

Poppycat- you may find you have a whoosh next week when TOMT does one. Wow a lot of us are in sync Smile

Clutter - well done for today, yeah see how it goes tomorrow sometimes the 2nd day is easier.

Lamb - also big well done to you on your fast. I forget how many of you fast on a Monday.

CheshireSplat · 21/05/2018 21:30

Ah thanks Quacking , I'm really touched. I don't think there are any secret pitfalls but I'll be sure to check. I think it's just too much relaxing from Thursday or Friday night onwards...

I'm not doing a B2B this week and will MFP on all my NFD days. I think I need to get into the being good except with rare exception headspace rather than where I am which is that I am good 2 days a week. I know all this, just need the motivation. Which is that I don't want to be overweight/obese and suffer mobility problems like my DM and DGM.

I'm going to up the exercise this next xiuoif weeks though, that always makes me feel better.

snailhunter · 21/05/2018 22:42

Hi quacking, yep, I have a half in mid August booked. I like to do at least two events a year. Bit frustrating to have spent first month of training not able to run but am starting from being pretty fit already so not worried about catching up. Not going for a PB on this one, either, just going to run in a lovely place. I much prefer off-road running.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2018 22:47

How did your 1st FD go, Akire ?

That's a good 1st miniFD under your belt, daisy

Impressive willpower, Maz refusing bread & then biscuits

Yes, mfp for a week sounds a good idea for you too, yumyum

That's a good plan, cheshire

No need to go low fat on 5:2, Borris
I think we all use whole eggs when making omelettes, including on FDs
Life's too short to separate eggs !
Anyway, the yolk is the tastiest bit, very good for the eyes, too

Also, full-fat Greek yoghurt is creamier & tastier than that 0% fat 100% nose snot stuff
More satisfying to have the proper stuff, just a bit less and unflavoured
I love Skyr yoghurt though, which is low fat but high protein, so filling and creamy.

Duck I suspect your issue is junk carbs - cake, sweets, crisps, fries, pizza etc - rather than sensible portions of ordinary starchy carbs
Remember to boost beans, lentils, peas to reduce carb portion size

You might do even better with less processed starches:

  • porridge oats (not instant) instead of sugary breakfast cereal
  • boiled or baked spuds instead of mashed or deep-fried
  • wholegrain or rye bread instead of white
  • brown / red rice instead of white
  • quinoa too

Good luck with day 2 of your b2b tomorrow, maz, blossom

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2018 22:54

That's great you do half-marathons, snail
and very sensible not to push for a pb after injury

Are you able to manage long training runs while doing 5:2, or do you 16:8 ?
A longterm 5:2er, Anglaise is an excellent long-distance runner - 20k, marathons and ultras, winning her age class in many events
iirc she reported she used to stop fasting during her training periods and just do 5:2 in the off season, to maintain a lean bod.

OP posts:
Homemadehopeful · 21/05/2018 23:01

Hi all, sorry I haven't had time to read through the thread since Sat but wanted to pop in and say that I did a FD today. Horrendous day work wise followed by coming home to a poorly dog so evening all went pear shaped too. Managed to stay under 600 cals so not the best FD but could of been worse!!!

Am off on holiday Thurs evening so last weigh in will be Thurs this week and not my usual Friday morning. Hoping for a small loss as did gain over the weekend (just for a change!!)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/05/2018 06:23

Oh no quacking that doesn't seem fair at all!!

Good luck to today's b2b'ers....

Managed my fd yesterday, i just went bed.
Nfd today then possibly a mini fd tomorrow, fd Thurs or Fri?

Well done homemade on getting through yours and hope your dog is better soon Flowers enjoy your holiday, sounds like you need it.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 22/05/2018 07:23

What body brush do you use Quacking?

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 22/05/2018 07:30

Good for you mazdazzle - very strong willed 👍🏼

I eat LOADS of prawns Blossom they are great aren't they. Spicy prawn and fennel & tomato stew with fresh green herbs is very filling and delicious too 😁

Iamblossom · 22/05/2018 07:43

Day 2 of b2b.

💪

WreckTangled · 22/05/2018 07:58

NFD for me. I'm taking a blt for lunch and that's it. Will stop me wanting to go to M&S to buy something yum.

Good luck anyone fasting. I feel much slimmer today but I'm wearing all black so 🤷‍♀️Grin

quackingduck222 · 22/05/2018 07:59

Cheshire- hope you can figure it out. MFP is fantastic and really is a eye opener it’s actually knocked all my bad habits on the head since I started using it properly.

Snail that’s fantastic, out of curiosity how much training do you do for a half? What’s the longest run you would do prior?

BCF funny you should mention skyr yoghurt DH bought that yesterday after label studying for half a hour it’s incredibly high in protein compared to the low fat crap he normally has. He actually commented on how creamy and filling it was.

Il be honest and say on your list most of it I never have. The only exception is cake twice this year and mash twice as I normally have carrot & swede mash instead. Honestly I’m a changed person. It’s been a very gradual change mind you but I am a million miles away from what I used to eat.

Homemade hope you have a lovely holiday.

Smiled il see if I can link my body brush when I get back from school. It was only a few pounds and it works great I think it took a little while to arrive as it came from China.

Maz - sounds like you had a very good day resisting temptation.

bluerunningshoes · 22/05/2018 08:10

fd today
good luck to all tuesday fasters!

snailhunter · 22/05/2018 08:40

That's so interesting about anglaise, bcf. This is the first long-distance event I have trained for while doing 5:2 - I decided just to train to get my 5k and 10K PBs down for the first few months, and that's what I've been doing since Jan, as the runs are much shorter and more intense. So I think it's going to be a case of seeing what works. At the moment I'm thinking about carrying on doing two FDs a week as I am still 3lb off goal, but just scheduling them for non-exercise days, and doing my long runs at the weekend when I have two NFDs. This may or may not work! I am quite intrigued by the idea of doing 16:8 while training. Would I have to do it every day, do you think?

quacking My training plan - the standard Garmin half-marathon plan which I've actually found works very well for me in the past - is three runs a week in varying heart rate zones (I would do five if aiming for a PB but I am also doing a lot of cycling and swimming as it's summer, and am really enjoying them too.) It's one easy/steady run for between 30-45 mins, one set of intervals, and one long run, building up slowly to maximum length of 2hrs 10 mins about a month before the run and then tapering back down to 1hr 45 two weeks before, then just 60 minutes the week before.

Right, FD for me today, busy day planned - lots of work in the morning and then off to youngest DS's sports day in afternoon. Good luck to all the Tuesday fasters!