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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
NoWayNoHow · 18/04/2018 14:53

Selfie Grin

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
MazDazzle · 18/04/2018 14:56

I can’t sew either quacking and even if I could, I’d never get round to it. Were you pleased with your altered clothes? I must admit I feel a bit cheated that they’ll still say size 16!

Ordered some clothes from ASOS today and all of the 12s fit with room to spare. It’s so rewarding. Much more so than a SV.

Gobblebox · 18/04/2018 17:37

So I have a dilemma. I’ve had about 500 cal packed lunch today and no brekkie. I could last until tommorow and get my 2fd out of the way. But I have a PT session tonight at 8.30 AND evenings are my usual times to feel hungry. I am thinking of challenging myself and powering through. I am actually scared at the prospect. But I know I’d feel great having this mini achievement. i Think I’ve answered my own questionConfused

WreckTangled · 18/04/2018 18:17

Thanks BCF

Kitchen closed at 568 calories. I quite like doing B2B as then I know it's over for the week.

NoWay GrinGrin

quackingduck222 · 18/04/2018 18:19

Gobble - I’d say play it by ear and see how you feel. If you need something after you could have it as a Mini Fast and mini fasts are just a bonus or if you go the whole hog you can have a bonus FD.

Maz - I’ve not got round to doing them yet. Just haven’t had the time. Or the ability to learn to sew. I do need to crack on with it at some point tho.

OohMrDarcy · 18/04/2018 19:49

Evening all

Busy couple of days work here - loved todays sunshine so have been out in a pub garden for dinner with the DC.... No booze or desert for me Halo and in fact just a side for dinner as wasn't that hungry.

Welcome newbies, and well done to everyone on the NSVs / SVs!

Checking in, in advance of tomorrows FD

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/04/2018 20:00

Wow well done bug
Ooh bcf I hope it because I'm burning fat Grin I get so thirsty on my fd and tend to glug a pint of squash in the evening, I'll try and drink it earlier, thanks for the advice.

Sorry noway but that made me chuckle Smile

Fd tomorrow also mrd and such restraint on your pub meal, well done...

TheMShip · 18/04/2018 21:19

Had an ok FD Monday, today was a bit of a washout with the conference food. Will try to keep it cleaner tomorrow. Helps to read about how well everyone is doing here. I really need to be conscious of keeping my water intake up.

purpleviolet1 · 18/04/2018 21:58

Thanks quacking , did you do low carb out of choice to get to goal faster?

yogi47 · 19/04/2018 06:50

Morning. Busy work week so just catching up with all the great progress and tips. FDs all done here for the week and back on track after my disaster and gain last week. SV here, total loss 10lb and back into the 11s (wish it was 10s).... NSVs in clothes (note to self - buy new tights, hitching up in office not the done thing Grin), not eating cake or biscuits at work when everyone else was tucking in, next week planned already with new food ideas and B2B planned due to diary, Have a good day everyone and thanks for keeping me going!

OohMrDarcy · 19/04/2018 06:58

Checking in for FD here too, yogi sounds like you are all over it at the mo!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 19/04/2018 07:21

Loving this thread. So helpful and inspiring thank you. I have never ever been a dieter. But decided something had to change as am 3st overweight.

So I completed my second ever FD yesterday and have weighed in this morning at 3.5lbs down in 5 days.
So happy. Good luck to everyone doing a FD today SmileSmileSmile

WreckTangled · 19/04/2018 07:23

NFD for me. I've got stat training and it's going to be 24 degrees. Not impressed!

Good luck to all the fasters today

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/04/2018 07:30

Well done on your svs yogi and smiled' that's a great start smiled

UnnecessaryFennel · 19/04/2018 07:42

Hello all! Gorgeous day here, hope you're all getting a bit of sun. I was going to make this a mini FD but...dp and I shared a bottle of wine in the garden last night....which turned into more than one. Terrible night's sleep and I feel 'delicate' this morning. Entirely my own fault obviously and a good reminder of the perils of weekday drinking!

quackingduck222 · 19/04/2018 07:55

Darcy - well done on your pub dinner. That showed lots of restraint from you.

43 - you sound a bit like me, I drink more of FDs as I add a bit more salt to my food as I don’t have bovril / marmite. I spend most the day in the toilet.

Mship - now the weather is a bit warmer you might find your drinking more naturally.

Purple- low carb after Xmas was a plan to get rid of the Xmas gain. I had only planned to do it for a week. The Xmas gain set me back to September but after the first week I lost the Xmas weight (5.5lbs) and figured I’d stick with it to see what happened the next I then lost 3.8 lbs and the results seemed too good to stop. I had been messing about loosing and gaining beforehand so it was a case of heads in the game let’s power through and do it.
I found it a bit tough mentally but would definitely do a odd week on it after a holiday/ Xmas if needs must.

Well done on your losses Yogi, 10lbs is a lot. Hope your B2B is going well.

Well done on your 2nd FD rising sun. How did you find it?

Tangled I hope your day goes fast.

FD for me, haven’t been weighing in daily lately but noticed something was wrong yesterday jeans were very tight at the thighs. Jumping on scales has confirmed the biggest gain since target. I’m my head I had been working out a lot more so had been eating more. Time to pull it back.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 19/04/2018 08:09

FD here today. Not sure how it's going to go as it has started off pretty stressful Confused

Having my mum staying with us is definitely extra stress so I'm just trying to take things easy and be kind to myself.

But yesterday and Monday I managed nearly 12,000 steps (according to my phone, which I know is not that accurate Wink

Gobblebox · 19/04/2018 08:30

Morning all. The sun is shining and I’m 2 FDs down. A gazillion to goSmile.

quackingduck222 · 19/04/2018 08:55

Well done gobble on your FD yesterday. How did your gym session go?

MazDazzle · 19/04/2018 09:01

Well done Smiled! No looking back now Grin.

It’s my totm and I haven’t gained. Last month it was 3lbs. Usually I’m ravenous before my period, but haven’t been hungry at all. So close to target now. We go on holiday at the end of next week. It’s the getting back into it that I find hard. A week’s holiday becomes two months off fasting. Blush

snailhunter · 19/04/2018 09:18

Having an awful work week: impossible deadlines that must happen! And DH is working away so everything - kids, dog, house stuff - falls to me. And still no period, and headache, aaaargh! Normally I fast today but for first time on this WOE feel that I would just collapse in a weeping heap and down a bottle of gin by lunchtime. So will not set myself up to fail and will just eat sensibly today. No point piling on even more presure: it’s fine to be kind to myself.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 19/04/2018 09:27

Really quite liking it quacking - FD2 was extra hard last night as was at a b'day event with cake but I just resisted and drank fizzy water. Who knew I had ANY willpower?! Smile

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 19/04/2018 09:28

Also got my period today - can you still do FDs as normal?

southeastlondonmum · 19/04/2018 09:41

Hi all, clocking in on a Thursday fast day. Also did one on Tuesday and ate well under TDEE on other days. We are going away for a weekend of feasting tomorrow so I am definitely trying to bank some calories ahead of that. I'm it going to hold back but hopefully with pre restraint and two days fasting after the damage will be minimal. I am going on holiday first week of June and want to drop another 4lbs by then to reach goal

quackingduck222 · 19/04/2018 10:01

Maz that’s the tricky part. Can you plan ahead and get your first FD marked on the calendar/ diary / phone reminder?

Snail - that’s a great plan. We do need to be kinder to ourselves.

Rising sun - that’s fantastic and shows lots of willpower. And yes you can still fast as normal. You may find the scales won’t show a loss with retained water but once TOTM passes your loss should show. It does mess with your mind but just stick with it.

South east - it’s fantastic your planning ahead. Hope you have a lovely weekend