Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
WreckTangled · 17/04/2018 17:58

Hmm have got Greek yoghurt but I only like it with honey Grin we're a bit low on food

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 18:06

TIP On FDs, I have a couple of cocoas, made with water and a dash of cashew milk.
So, works out about the same as you have !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 18:08

Even women who have fairly easily stayed slim usually find this changes at menopause
Biology is a sexist bugger

OP posts:
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 17/04/2018 18:32

Second FD for me tomorrow.
I have a couple of questions for the experts here..

  1. Do you count calories on NFD?
  1. If so how many are you going for?
  1. Do you have wine on NFD?
BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 18:59

smiled On NFDs for at least the first 2 weeks, I recommend you just eat & drink as normal - subject to the 5:2 tips below - and don't count calories
then review progress.

Our 5:2 NFD tips include:

  • No snacking between meals
  • Keep within NHS alcohol guidelines
  • Be sensible about treats, keep within one moderate portion per day, preferably not every day.

If you are not losing as expected, or if this happens later on, then you can mfp for a week to check if your "normal" is too much

  • you should be eating roughly your TDEE oon NFDs, as these should be "maintenance" days

The OP has the link to calculate TDEE, plus lots more info
I recommend reading especially the "How to Start" section near the top.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 19:05

btw, my 2 cocoas on some FDs are instead of 2 meals, so they are mini-meals, not snacks

  • they are at least 4 hours away from each other and from my FD supper.

A mini-meal on FD or NFD is instead of a meal, i.e. 4 hours away from consuming anything else,
which contains protein but no sugar, or very little sugar.

A couple slices of chicken breast / hoiled egg / smoked salmon are other examples of mini-meals
Fruit would not be a good mini-meal, because of the high sugar and almost zero protein.

OP posts:
Gobblebox · 17/04/2018 19:07

Thank you all for the welcome. I have noted all above. Today I haven’t counted calories (decided on it being a NFD having been to the gym and feeling starving afterwards). So I broke my fast at 3pm. I ate two meals in quick succession and just by reading ge nutritional info from what I ate i figured I ate nearly 1600 cal. I’m much taller than average so I assume my tdee will be 1800-2000 kcal. I will check properly later. So now I will try not to eat again tonight (which is my favourite time to snack) - this will be hard.....can I at least have a vodka tonic whilst watching tvBlush

purpleviolet1 · 17/04/2018 19:11

Quacking how long did it take for you to lose the last stone (when you were focused and did everything by BCF's rules)?

littleladylawyer · 17/04/2018 19:13

Welcome gobble, I also find nfds harder than fds but I think I'm gradually getting there.

noway 28,000 steps in one day is amazing!

Well done wreck. I would say if you're not hungry don't have anything, but if you are maybe something like a boiled egg or some carrot rather than biccies, or you may find you flick on the carb munching switch Wink

Wasn't intending on b2b this week but was in long meetings all day with no chance to eat so have decided to have a 500cal dinner and then that's me done fasting for the week.

Now the weathers nice I'm finding I want nice fresh food and salad rather than the cheesy carbs I crave all winter!

Gobblebox · 17/04/2018 19:18

Tdee = 2200. I set this at sedentary but I actually work out 3-4x per week; and my Apple Watch says I burn about 500-800 kcal each session. Lower end is weights only. Higher end if cardio heavy session. I will be honest. I’m overweight mainly because family size chocolate bars and a whole pack of biscuits instead of dinner is something I have no problem eating even though I feed my children balanced healthy meals. This will be my biggest challenge. Eating meals and not snacking Confused. Based on the above. Today is a winSmile. Baby steps.....

WreckTangled · 17/04/2018 19:26

Thanks, I think I'll have a peppermint and liquorice tea and get an early night as dh is at football anyway. I'm going to have another FD tomorrow because I have training Thursday and Friday then we're going to the beach and I don't want to do it at the weekend either.

Gobble biscuits and chocolate are my weakness too!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/04/2018 19:35

wreck if you ate doing back to back (b2b) fasts then you have 650cals each day... just make sure you eat enough protein and veg to keep you satisfied, good luck.

gobble good luck Smile

Kitchen closed on 512cals... had chicken salad and small bowl of Greek yogurt with some grapes.

Good luck other Tues fasters, nearly done Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/04/2018 19:37

'Are' not ate.... even my spellchecker is obsessed with eating Wink

WreckTangled · 17/04/2018 19:40

Oh ok. I'll add some humous to my veg sticks tomorrow Smile yum. I don't like egg and I'm not a bit meat eater so struggle a bit on the protein. Must look into it more.

UnnecessaryFennel · 17/04/2018 19:56

Evening all. Kitchen has closed on around 500 cals and that's my second b2b done!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 20:00

Gobble Sounds like the snacking will be the toughest issue for you.
You can still have your vodka or choc bars, but only with a meal, nothing between meals.

On FDs, don't eat back exercise calories.

On NFDs, if you do decide to count exercise calories, then much safer to do so only via TDEE, not gadgets - which can often over-estimate.
For TDEE, Mosely recommends taking one activity level lower than you think, because most folk over-estimate exercise.
I suggest you calculate TDEE for "moderate" and take that as your upper limit.

OP posts:
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 17/04/2018 20:03

Thanks for the tips.
Have had 1 glass of wine as had a tough NFD.
I figure am fasting tomorrow so should be ok.
What's tdee?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 20:03

With that high TDEE, you should automatically stay within TDEE, without counting

  • if you stop snacking and keep within NHS alcohol guidelines

On FDs, no alcohol or sweet junk at all, but that leaves 5 days when you can enjoy them with a meal

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 20:04

The OP explains TDEE and links to Mosely's calculator for it

OP posts:
NoUnderpantsinSpace · 17/04/2018 20:06

I have not calorie counted today - lunch was salad with Tuna and dinner was stir fried veggies with chicken. So very light. No bread or noodles or anything. My mum prepared both meals and I feel really self conscious fasting while she is here.

But, I’m happy with today! Grin

Hope all the other fasters have had a good day!
Gobble follow what BCF says and i am sure you cannot go wrong. Smile

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 17/04/2018 20:07

Oh, I’m counting today as a FD Smile in case that wasn’t clear.

Gobblebox · 17/04/2018 20:13

Thanks BCF. I wonder how accurate is the tdee calculator with only inputting height weight exercise sex and age? Should I stick to the sedentary to allow for error?

HLBug · 17/04/2018 20:16

Day 2 of B2B finishing on about 630 calories. Pret souper tomato soup for lunch (~200) then a chicken and veg stir fry for dinner (~430). It's been a quick and fairly painless B2B this week.

But oh goodness the days ahead are going to be interesting - it's the "baby's" 1st birthday tomorrow and I'm already an emotional wreck. Wine, cake, chocolate...hard spirits...anything is possible Blush Then I'm away with work Thursday/Friday (whilst my DS has his preschool year injections - good luck DH!) and we're having a little party at home on Saturday. Then it's DS' 4th birthday next week, so the hormones will start up all over again! Waaaaaah!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 17/04/2018 20:22

Thanks Bigchoc!
So would presume that whatever MFP suggests I consume each day would be my TDEE then?

WreckTangled · 17/04/2018 20:38

Gah sugar level went low so had to eat three jelly babies. I shall consider them medication rather than a snack Grin (I would never not treat a low anyway).