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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
purpleviolet1 · 16/04/2018 18:40

I've closed the kitchen - had a 2 egg cheese omelette with 1.5 slices of bread. Followed by a glass of irn bru Sad still, could be worse. Could be way over calories as well as sugar...

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 19:01

How are you doing on your 1st FD, smiled ?
Not long to go now.

I fasted all day and now sitting in my local tapas restaurant, waiting for my Salmon & Gambas salad. Yum.

Fasters: once you've finished supper, drink a glass of water then clean your teeth - it stops the temptation to nibble later.
Then plan an early night, to maximise fasting benefits.

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 19:38

Maz I was on WiFi at work nhs WiFi but I've just tried again now and I can't get anything up, I'm wondering if it's because I haven't got the premium? Although I never have done.

UnnecessaryFennel · 16/04/2018 20:06

Evening all. Kitchen has just closed on probably a bit over 700, if I'm really honest, so I'm going to do a b2b tomorrow to even things up.

Good advice about the teeth brushing!

HLBug · 16/04/2018 20:43

Finishing somewhere between 6-700 calories today - been a funny sort of day. Zumba class this evening too. Looking forward to a good FD tomorrow - Tuesdays are always busy work days.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/04/2018 20:49

Well...,It was actually fine thanks for asking big choc Smile
I bought the Elly Pear book and the food & ideas are totally yummy.

Had cajun prawns for dinner & actually feeling pretty full. Also ate way earlier than usual - so feeling good about that too,

Am SO not a dieter. But I just have a feeling I can do this. It's been a long time coming, and you're all completely right about the fact that you just have to think "I can have what I want tomorrow".

See you again on Wednesday!

Smile
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/04/2018 20:51

Love the miso idea thanks Mship Grin

snailhunter · 16/04/2018 20:59

All done here! Saved all cala for dinner: homemade tomato sauce with pasta, full fat greek yog with berries and tiny bit of honey. Felt easy today! I am getting so much better at just forgetting about food.

CheshireSplat · 16/04/2018 21:02

Putting myself on the naughty step. Had done so well with my FD, around 450 calories. Then the children just really irritated me. I've had a long day at work, no breaks, came home to them spilling drinks, spilling food and then 20 minutes with DD1 doing piano practice. We concentrated on just 2 bars and she couldn't get it after 20 fliipin' minutes. She's still awake, the little one is asleep thank goodness. And I've got some prep to do for work tomorrow and have to pack for a night away. And DH stripped the bed but hasn't made it and I just want to cry!!!! Instead of crying had 2 pieces of bread and butter. I'm normally so good on FDs but can't even bring myself to be cross with myself!!!

So I'm going to claw back those 2 slices of bread and butter back through eating a little less tomorrow and Wednesday and an FD again on Thursday.

Sob sob.

quackingduck222 · 16/04/2018 21:18

Oh Cheshire please don’t be so hard on yourself. You’ve had a testing day, and it could of been so much worse. You could of said sod it and eaten everything. But you didn’t. Honestly these things happen.

Well done snail, yogi and fennel and everyone else fasting.

Welcome Smiled, congratulations on nailing your first FD. It definitely gets easier, but your first day is done so big well done.

I’m well over TDEE today. That Greek yoghurt and Musli probably wasn’t the best lunch option but I had such a headache and so much work that needed to get done it was the first immediate option.

HLBug · 16/04/2018 21:18

Ohh Chesire that sounds like one of those days. Poor you. It could be worse - it could be the violin... Chin up. You didn't order a takeaway. You didn't open a bottle of wine. You didn't throw anyone out the window. All you did was turn a FD into a Mini. No biggy so don't beat yourself up!

littleladylawyer · 16/04/2018 21:19

Kitchen closed at 440, had brisket with a load of veg and now nicely full.

I no longer have a parking place at work so got the train in today- it's a 40min walk to and from the station and with my lunchtime walk and an evening stroll I did over 12km! It was lovely walking in the sunshine. I'm going to be getting the train in 3 times per week and looking forward to being more active.

Well done to all of today's fasters.

littleladylawyer · 16/04/2018 21:25

Sorry cheshire I missed your post. Don't be down on yourself, sounds like a rubbish day and 2 slices of bread and butter is nothing in the scheme of things- like you say you can make up for it later in the week. Hope you manage to get a good night's sleep

MazDazzle · 16/04/2018 21:41

I’ve not got the premium either Wreck, so there’s something definitely not right there. Does the app need updating?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 21:44

Well done on your 1st FD, smiled
Sounds like this WOE should suit you

cheshire Don't worry about those 2 slices of b&b; you did well on a stressful day to end up with a miniFD and no corpses buried under the patio
Just be mindful on the NFDs this week, nail the next FD and your week will be fine.

That's a let-down for you, 43 Cafes often are pathetic for veg and expensive for what they serve you
Good places to find a freshly made salad or something else healthy that the DC will enjoy too : Pret, most Tapas bars

Well done on your FD, lawyer, snail, bug, fennel, Maz, MrD
I hope yours ended well too, yogi, boldly, purple
and also wrecked with your 1st day of mindful eating and no snacks.

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 16/04/2018 21:46

Don’t be hard on yourself Cheshire. I won’t twll you what I’d have eaten afterwards if I had succumbed to bread and butter, incase it gives you ideas! But no way could I have stopped there. It could have been so much worse. You did well to reign it in.

NoWayNoHow · 16/04/2018 22:00

Hi all!

Sorry, have been AWOL this last week and a bit and haven't caught up on the thread. Hope all Monday FDs went ok? Not much to report except a small TOTM 0.5lb loss last Friday and a closed kitchen today on 581cals. Bit more than normal but struggled out the office all day to pick up low cal stuff to eat.

bcf still sticking religiously to "No snacking " rule and think it's making a great difference. Stomach much flatter I think. Just going to focus on 2 good NFDs before next FD on Thurs.

Assume there will be some B2Bs for tomorrow so good luck all who are going for it!!

CheshireSplat · 16/04/2018 22:29

Oh Bug that made really really laugh, thanks. My brother learning to play the violin is the stuff of family folklore (and I like to remind him cos even at the age of 45 he still doesn't like being teased about it!!).

Thanks everyone for all your support, it really is much appreciated.

I've just made a sandwich for lunch tomorrow and will have that and an apple and then nothing til dinner. Back on track!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 06:49

Morning, Tuesday fasters Smile
Another lovely sunny day here Smile - I find my mood is so much better in spring & summer, especially with the longer days. I HATE winter

Well done, noway Any SV and NSV during totm is excellent
and nailing the "no snacking" rule will help you manage weight for life

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 17/04/2018 06:57

I agree, Cheshire, it could easily have been a family sized bar of chocolate but it was only a couple of slices of bread.

FD for me today and I've woken up with a headache! Will be taking celery sticks and an oxo to work for 'lunch' and dinner is bolognese (just meat and sauce) and salad. Does that sound ok? Plenty of water and mint tea too.

UnnecessaryFennel · 17/04/2018 07:07

Morning! Day 2 of b2b for me. Feeling good about it Smile

Good luck to everyone fasting today!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/04/2018 07:16

Morning everyone... oh cheshire kudos to you for stopping at 2 pieces of bread I would have had the Gin poured!
Well done on your sv noway

Came in well under tdee yesterday, fd today now I'm back in the office and ds back in school at last good luck Tues fasters Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/04/2018 07:19

wreck plenty of water and a teaspoon of marmite will help with the headaches although I can't confirm that as there is no way I'd let that stuff pass my lips Envy

purpleviolet1 · 17/04/2018 07:31

No loss this morning after FD (since Saturday). However on Saturday I had lost a lb between 1 Fd to the other so perhaps that's why

MazDazzle · 17/04/2018 07:31

Another pound off. Hoping for 2 good NFD and a mini FD before the weekend.

noway that’s really good! Most gain at our totm. Mine is approaching soon. Periods never used to bother me, but now my PMS is horrendous, not just in the run up to my totm but also in the run up to ovulating. I take starflower and evening primrose oil, but they don’t help. Any other suggestions?