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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 16/04/2018 08:08

I'm going for another B2B this week - today and tomorrow. Looks like I've got lots of company today! Congrats on getting into the 10s Cheshire - great achievement!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 08:09

Good luck, Monday fasters Smile

If you are starting within healthy BMI, tangled then your loss may be slower than average, but stay patient & focused and you'll reach goal.

Congrats on breaking through into the 10 stone somethings, cheshire

Wow, yogi 20k steps yesterday is impressive

duck remember you have a Happy Weight Range, to allow for natural fluctuations.
So no need to lose if you are within 5lb of your lowest weight

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 08:25

Thanks, I'm aiming for 1lb a week and anything else will be a bonus Smile I do have a healthy bmi but it's in the top end and it's slowly creeping on so I need to reset my eating habits and get healthy. I'm type one diabetic so may have to adjust some things but I'm going to feel much healthier doing this.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/04/2018 08:33

well done cheshire that's fab
I usually have a FD on mondays but I'm at home today with DS because over 2 weeks off school obviously wasn't long enough, they have to have an inset day on the monday also Angry
just wondering whether I'm better moving it to tues / thurs?? Might just see how i get on and play it by ear

Weekend was okay, but I failed the no drinking on sunday rule I set for myself and had a few Gin

good luck monday fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 16/04/2018 08:41

Tangled - 1lb a week is very sensible. I’d use that as a average of 4lbs a month as you may very well find you have a good week followed by a STS for no reason but over the months it definitely averages out.

BCF - I’m using a weight range of 2lbs under target and 2lbs over. If I fall out of that I either have a FD or have something extra. This is the first time I’ve gone so far out of my 2 + a extra 2.5 but a FD at 800 seems to bring it back in line.

43 you must be in a different part of the country as ours went back last Monday. Bliss

WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 08:53

We're back today. I've had two weeks off so didn't enjoy getting up this morning!

TheMShip · 16/04/2018 09:12

Well done cheshire!

Go go Monday fasters! Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/04/2018 09:22

I'm in Lancashire quacking and some schools here went back last week, just not ours....I'm just annoyed at the extra bloody training day that they tag onto the end of EVERY holiday they have...

Welcome wreck

snailhunter · 16/04/2018 10:07

FD for me today! Congrats on breaking the 10stone barrier Cheshire - I did that a few weeks ago and it feels so good! The sun's shining, I only have one child left at home (he's back tomorrow) and I've just taken the dog for a walk through the woods and seen the first bluebells!

littleladylawyer · 16/04/2018 10:41

Well done Cheshire, that's a fab Sv!

Got through the wedding on Saturday and feeling much better now, just a slight sore throat that's stubbornly hanging on. Appetite returned in full force yesterday and I ate loads!

Planning fds today and weds or thurs this week rather than b2b. I'm aiming to eat as much nutritious food and veg as possible and to get out and about in the sunshine. First week with no mfp so interested to see how I feel at the end of it.

Good luck today's fasters Smile

purpleviolet1 · 16/04/2018 11:33

Hoping my FD will go ok today as I'm exhausted Sad ds has me up again overnight and isn't feeling too well.

Well done Cheshire

NSV looked at some wedding pics from Feb 16 and I looked podgy. Hadn't realised how much so ! Feel great now

WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 11:35

Apparently we're all meeting up for coffee and cake later (work), not impressed at being tested on my first day!

snailhunter · 16/04/2018 12:03

Nice to hear you got to the wedding, lawyer. I'm also going to be very interested to see how my first week without MFP goes. We can compare notes! I had this really weird feeling yesterday on my NFD that I wasn't doing 5:2 properly without MFP and then I thought hang on, I had a small nutritious breakfast, a small nutritious lunch, a small nutritious dinner and no snacks or booze. What more would MFP have brought to the party?

yogi47 · 16/04/2018 12:39

Well done Cheshire! FD here but not going b2b this week, I think that played a part in my downfall last week as I then took my foot off the peddle on the NFDs for the rest of the week!!

Hope everyone's FDs are going well! Holding out so far!

OohMrDarcy · 16/04/2018 13:19

oops quacking - I meant mon or tues on the fasting, not both - so just the 2 fasts for me!

Good luck those getting into the groove minus MFP.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/04/2018 14:03

First fast day EVER here.
Please tell me this gets easier 😳

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/04/2018 14:17

welcome risingsun yes FD do get easier, remember to drink LOADS of water and if you get a headache then either marmite or bovril will help at only 10cals each... Stay strong, you can do it and you are over half way already. Keep chanting the 5:2 mantra "I can have it tomorrow" Grin

good luck to those going without mfp, i'm tempted to try but don't think i'm quite there yet.

So today is going to be a NFD as had lunch out with DS, chose the chicken breast salad which was a real disappointment, i had to pick out the brown leaves, there was no dressing, 4 cherry tomatoes and about half a red onion, that was it - why are cafes so rubbish at offering a nice salad, at £6.25 it wasn't cheap either! Needless to say I won't be going to that cafe again Shock oh and when I ordered it she looked in disbelief when I said that no, i didn't want a side of chips with it!!!

MazDazzle · 16/04/2018 14:40

You are past the worst SmiledWithTheRisingSun and it’s down hill all the way from 4pm onwards. Just keep going! Have you had anything to eat so far? I find it easiest to save all of my calories for dinner, though some find it takes a while before they feel comfortable doing this.

MazDazzle · 16/04/2018 14:47

Well done Cheshire!

Did half an hour of kettlebells this morning, then an hour of weight training (legs). I’ll be feeling it tomorrow.

Day 2 of b2b going well. Did a quick food shop on the way home from the gym. Don’t feel hungry, more just empty. Logged on here for some inspiration and positivity. Feeling more focused now. Come on Monday fasters, we can do this!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/04/2018 14:58

Aw thanks.
Have spaced my calories out.
Am using mfp
I have about 200 left for dinner.
I'm more of a daytime water really.

CheshireSplat · 16/04/2018 14:58

Smiled it definitely get easier. You even start looking forward to them!!

Don't give up now, or you'll never start again.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/04/2018 15:02

Sorry typo! Meant to say - More of a daytime EATER.
Am downing the herbal teas like nobody's business Grin
Am feeling better after lunch!

TheMShip · 16/04/2018 16:12

smiled I like the 30kcal miso soup packets to help me through the afternoon slump. Just a touch more interesting than bovril. I'm sitting at 300kcal with one of those, some veg soup and popcorn at lunch.

Intending to try 3 mini-FDs this week at 1000kcal (NOT 100!! bad typo last week!), which is actually a bigger weekly deficit than my usual 2 x 800kcal FDs. Wednesday and Friday will be the big challenges as I am at a (luckily local so I can have dinner at home) conference. I didn't feel I could manage a full FD on any of those, weekend FDs are too hard for me, and I am not a B2Ber so Tuesday was out.

WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 16:36

Re herbal teas I really like mint and liquorice, the liquorice gives a sweet after taste.

I had cake. It was good. I will still be under TDEE today. I used to use mfp and went back on but it's changed and now you can't seem to search their vast library of foods, it only shows ones I've had before which is really annoying.

I don't like miso soup but I love a cup of veggie oxo BlushGrin

MazDazzle · 16/04/2018 18:22

Were you on your mobile or tablet by any chance? I think it’s to do with the strength of internet signal. It happens to me when I’m not connected to wifi, WreckTangled. I don’t think you can do a proper search with 3/4G.

Had to ditch my planned dinner as the prawn salad were out of date. When I do a food shop I usually make a list of everything that’s in the fridge in order of when it goes out of date. Didn’t do it last week. What a waste. Looks like it’ll have be good old chicken salad again.

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