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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
OohMrDarcy · 15/04/2018 08:26

Well done on the clothes NSV it's a fab feeling isn't it!

Mighty, sounds like hormones not helping! Make sure you are drinking lots and try and think about meals to make sure plenty in them to keep you going

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2018 08:38

Well done on your clothes NSV, fennel
Your skin issue might be related to hormones, also possibly to hormonal contraception if you use that

TIP You and this WOE stopped my snacking, but snacks didn't exist when I was growing up, so I didn't have tough childhood habits to break.

I've never eaten standing up

  • it's one of several bodily functions that I never wish to attempt that way Wink
and I've always avoided street eating - I can't enjoy my food with noise, cars, strangers wandering around

Eating should be a relaxing time, with hands washed first, then proper concentration on the food for maximum enjoyment.

Poor you, munki Sounds like hormonal munchies.
Can you talk to your doctor about maybe changing the prescription ?

With hair falling out, try to concentrate on nutritious food, NHS alcohol limits and plenty of sleep, to support your body.

I recommend lowering the GI of your NFD meals - see the swaps I posted upthread - and roughly planning in advance 4 meals per day, nothing between.

With snacks, I just stopped totally, no mfp or anything
My advice is NOT to try to fit snacks within TDEE, or even to tail them off or have them at weekends.
Just stop all snacks forever, cold turkey.

You can still have sweet / junky treats if you wish, just only as part of a meal, e.g. on an NFD, crisps with your sandwich, or chocolate as your pud

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2018 08:39

Well done on your clothes NSV, Maz Motivating for you

OP posts:
UnnecessaryFennel · 15/04/2018 08:40

No, don't use any contraception, although I have long suspected that I may entering perimenopause Sad. Will just have to keep drinking the water and ride it out, I think!

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 09:28

Mighty - that sounds really though. But you sound if your on the right headspace now and I think that’s really important. Sometimes just by posting it makes us more accountable for our actions.
With the snacking, small steps. It’s a very hard habit to break I found. If you want something extra try having it straight after your dinner / tea then hopefully you will be so full you won’t have to worry about snacking.

Maz - congrats on your Clothes NSV. I just wanted to say it wasn’t that long ago I posted saying “omg I cant believe I got into a size 8 in asda but I’m not a size 8” I’m a real 8 now on my bottoms and I’m still wearing my asda sizes 8.

I tried shopping again yesterday and it’s a utter mindfield even in the same shop. The array of sizes I came away with was bloody stupid.

Well done Fennel your food mindset sounds absolutely great. And congratulations on the feeling better lighter and clothes fitting better.
Have you dieted in the past and found you’ve had issues with your skin? Whatever diet I’ve tried I always have a breakout for a bit then it clears right up. You haven’t changed any skin care products or anything recently have you?

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 09:28

Mighty - that sounds really though. But you sound if your on the right headspace now and I think that’s really important. Sometimes just by posting it makes us more accountable for our actions.
With the snacking, small steps. It’s a very hard habit to break I found. If you want something extra try having it straight after your dinner / tea then hopefully you will be so full you won’t have to worry about snacking.

Maz - congrats on your Clothes NSV. I just wanted to say it wasn’t that long ago I posted saying “omg I cant believe I got into a size 8 in asda but I’m not a size 8” I’m a real 8 now on my bottoms and I’m still wearing my asda sizes 8.

I tried shopping again yesterday and it’s a utter mindfield even in the same shop. The array of sizes I came away with was bloody stupid.

Well done Fennel your food mindset sounds absolutely great. And congratulations on the feeling better lighter and clothes fitting better.
Have you dieted in the past and found you’ve had issues with your skin? Whatever diet I’ve tried I always have a breakout for a bit then it clears right up. You haven’t changed any skin care products or anything recently have you?

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 09:28

Mighty - that sounds really though. But you sound if your on the right headspace now and I think that’s really important. Sometimes just by posting it makes us more accountable for our actions.
With the snacking, small steps. It’s a very hard habit to break I found. If you want something extra try having it straight after your dinner / tea then hopefully you will be so full you won’t have to worry about snacking.

Maz - congrats on your Clothes NSV. I just wanted to say it wasn’t that long ago I posted saying “omg I cant believe I got into a size 8 in asda but I’m not a size 8” I’m a real 8 now on my bottoms and I’m still wearing my asda sizes 8.

I tried shopping again yesterday and it’s a utter mindfield even in the same shop. The array of sizes I came away with was bloody stupid.

Well done Fennel your food mindset sounds absolutely great. And congratulations on the feeling better lighter and clothes fitting better.
Have you dieted in the past and found you’ve had issues with your skin? Whatever diet I’ve tried I always have a breakout for a bit then it clears right up. You haven’t changed any skin care products or anything recently have you?

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 09:29

Sorry for the triple post. My MN is playing up.

WreckTangled · 15/04/2018 14:34

Hi everyone, jumping in ready to start 5:2 again tomorrow. I did it a few years ago and it really helped to reset my eating habits. I have about a stone to lose. My current problems are chocolate and humous (not together Grin).

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2018 15:02

Welcome tangled Smile

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 15/04/2018 15:12

It doesn’t sound like your new pill is agreeing with you Mighty. Maybe your doctor could recommend another?

I can’t even imagine being a real size 8 quacking. Well done! I’m one of the 36F brigade and it was a size 8 top, so it def. shouldn’t have fit!

Well done on your NSV Darcy. Getting into a smaller size is so satisfying!

Had a day out with the kids yesterday and so was out for lunch and dinner. Def. over TDEE. Didn’t have anything sugary the whole day though, which would have been unheard of before. Passed on fresh doughnuts, candy floss and dessert because I just didn’t fancy them.

FD today just because I was in the mood for one. I’ve sailed through it so far. Planning on chicken breast, hard boiled egg and salad for dinner.

The kids are back to school tomorrow, so I’m looking forward to going to the gym with only one kid in tow, rather than three!

Enjoy the rest of your weekend folks!

snailhunter · 15/04/2018 17:02

Welcome newbies and returners! I'm gearing up for an FD tomorrow after a lovely break at my parent-in-laws house. Went out for a delicious meal which was worth every single calorie, so actually very much looking forward to having a break tomorrow. Third day off MFP and haven't missed it at all. I'm sure I would feel calmer except period is refusing to come and if it doesn't come soon someone is going to pay...

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 17:53

Snail - glad you had a lovely break away. It’s nice to have a lovely meal out isn’t it. And also not have to worry about it.

Maz - I’m in the big boobies club too at a F / FF club. Are you also in the vertically challenged club like me?

Anyone else fasting today? I’m doing a FD, are too much crap over this weekend so need to reset myself.

MazDazzle · 15/04/2018 21:05

Came in at 600 cals today. For a weekend FD which wasn’t planned, I’m pleased with that.

No, I’m certainly not vertically challenged quacking. I’ve always wanted to be shorter - though I’m not sure I’d cope with the low TDEE!

Your observations of French eating habits are interesting TiP. I’m heading off to NY soon, so I’ll definitely get some tips on how not to eat!

Monday is my usual FD snail, so I might join you tomorrow. Will see how it goes though. If I’m in the zone then I find b2b is easier.

quackingduck222 · 15/04/2018 21:18

Well done Maz on your non planned FD that’s cracking!

I’ve come in at 820 today for a massive plate of chicken and veg. But I ran 10k and burnt off just over 700 cals so I’m dead happy with that.

Your lucky then, yes the low TDEE is a huge PITA.

purpleviolet1 · 15/04/2018 21:26

FD tomorrow... whose in??

OohMrDarcy · 15/04/2018 21:40

evening all....

today not ideal - ended up having Dominos with the kids (last night before back to school) I was sensible - had 4 slices of pizza, and had made sure I had enough cals ... just not ideal really thats all.

Debating a FD tomorrow - just going through the weeks plans as it will be tomorrow / Tuesday and Thursday.

Welcome tangled

Well done all the weekend fasters!

yogi47 · 15/04/2018 21:45

I'm in purple. Have had dreadful week but walked 20k today and ready to get back in the saddle tomorrow!!! Next 4 days all planned - 2x FDs and 2x very good NFDs..., see you in the morning!!

CheshireSplat · 15/04/2018 22:30

I'm in for tomorrow too. Due to work commitments, I'll be fasting tomorrow and Thursday. I've been pretty restrained over the weekend so am not feeling too full. Normally I'm bloated after the weekend and looking forward to a Monday fast! Now, I'm just worried I'll be hungry in the morning...

boldlygoingsomewhere · 16/04/2018 07:02

I’m doing a FD today too. Spent large chunk of the weekend sitting in traffic on motorway so not great foodwise!

UnnecessaryFennel · 16/04/2018 07:04

Yep, I'm in. FD here today. Happy Monday all!

WreckTangled · 16/04/2018 07:12

Morning! MFD for me, but first day or paying attention to what I eat. My TDEE is 1556. Starting weight 9st2lb ideal weight 8st3lb but would be happy width 8st7lb. First day back at work after the Easter holidays too.

CheshireSplat · 16/04/2018 07:34

Yay yay yay!!!!

Have finally broken my 10 stone barrier Weighed in at 10 stone 12 3/4. BMI of 27.1. Will never be 11 stone something again!!!! Definitely have the Saturday FD to thank.

Next target; 10 time 7.

Yay! (This has been a very long time coming.)

OohMrDarcy · 16/04/2018 07:46

Well done Cheshire, ace feeling isn't it!

In in with everyone doing a FD today too

quackingduck222 · 16/04/2018 08:00

Good luck on your FDs purple, Darcy, Cheshire, going somewhere

Darcy - you have been very restrained on your pizza last night. It’s so very easy to over indulge as they are so yummy. Wow 3 FDs this week, that’s fantastic.

Yogi - 20k steps my god that is loads well done.

Welcome Tangled - I hope you have a great first week. 5:2 can really take your body to places you never thought it would go.

Well done Cheshire on your SV that’s absolutely fantastic.

Weighing in today a little heavier than I would of liked but on the bright side I have lost after my FD yesterday. Hoping to have a better week without as much crap. Time to get meal planning for the week.