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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
quackingduck222 · 14/04/2018 08:26

Yogi - don’t beat yourself up these things happen. You sound like you back in the right headspace now tho. And it will come off as quick as it went on.

Darcy - your doing fantastic not only with the weight loss but the small changes your making will set you up. And well done on the NSV with the pizza.

Little lady I hope your feeling better now.

Well done on your FD purple and Maz, can’t believe you avoided the buffet that’s a huge NSV.

Cheshire- good for you for doing a FD. You also sound like your in a good headspace now. Don’t give up, what’s done is done just put it behind you and move forward. Life throws us all sorts as long as you don’t give up your winning. Your still here and that’s a huge NSV.

CheshireSplat · 14/04/2018 08:31

The start of March, Darcy wow!!! Well done.

I'm trying to be positive. Good idea about focussing on the health benefits, I know TiP said this recently.

I'm away with work this week for 2 days which involves a big industry dinner. Which is another excuse to fall off the wagon. But I won't. It's a really boozy affair with bacon sandwiches the next day but I have a choice as to whether I let it derail me or not. There will be slim people there after all!

FD for me. Anyone else?

southeastlondonmum · 14/04/2018 09:40

Hello all,
Logging in with a great scale victory. Original scales have me somewhere between 10.7-10.10 stones and faulty scales have me at 10.13!. If you go on the basis of my starting point on original scales and the highest weight on original scales, I have lost 13lbs since January. This is in time when my mobility has been effected. Whoop

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2018 10:35

Well done on an excellent SV, Southeast
especially since at your height you probably were officially in healthy BMI, or v near.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2018 10:41

I'm having a mini, cheshire with maybe a Sunday FD too - because busy week ahead

You are right about making choices about what to eat & drink at these business functions

  • are those slim people knocking back a lot of booze & scoffing umpteen sarnies ?
  • if so, are they taller / male / very sporty / younger … ?
  • do they only eat like that a few times per year ?
OP posts:
yogi47 · 14/04/2018 10:43

Catching up.... amazing SVs and NSVs. Well done everyone! Motivation has returned thanks to you lovely lot! Thanks

southeastlondonmum · 14/04/2018 11:50

Thank you for your support BCF and everyone else on thread. Think I may try and lose another 4lbs or so and then try and maintain. Big weekend for me with lots of eating and no children so can't imagine I am going to lose then.
Yes have always been within healthy BMI and after a big loss straight Christmas have lost very slowly

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 14/04/2018 13:28

Just reading everyone's wonderful positive posts...
I'm going to announce last night's dinner as a NSV Grin I had steak and grilled veggies - subbed the jacket potato for veggies and didn't choose a different carb!
I did steal some sweet potato fries from DH and I did have dessert (shared with DH)... but previously I would have ordered my own potato.

purpleviolet1 · 14/04/2018 13:47

I've lost a lb since Tuesday Grin 8st 11.7lbs now

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/04/2018 14:01

Well done south and purple on your svs and on your nsv under

Nfd here but I haven't eaten yet Shock I'm not actually hungry. Going to the pub for an early tea so will have loads of calories to play with...

Good luck to those having a fd today, that's willpower! !!!!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 14/04/2018 14:30

Well done south, purple and under!

NFD here - already looking forward to Monday - feeling bloated and full on usual meals. Confused

CheshireSplat · 14/04/2018 16:01

That's funny, 43 I'm on a FD and have had more than you. Carrot soup I whisked up. Lots of coriander turned it green and the DDs declared it disgusting! 😂 It was okay...

That's all.

I'll get home about 7 and will get a stew out that I cooked and froze the other day. Easy!

Happy with my Saturday FD.

And remembering the health benefits!

OohMrDarcy · 14/04/2018 16:44

NSV! Had to dig out some shorts as it's rather warm today (shhh) got some 18s out, and tried on... they fit! (Busting out of a 20 when I started)

HLBug · 14/04/2018 16:46

Feeling very virtuous as I've done not 1, but 2 gym classes today! Back to back as well. Body Step followed by Body Combat. That was this morning and I've spent the afternoon in the park with the kids as it's a gorgeous sunny day here today (finally!! Although still only 14 degrees - but it's double figures so I'm embracing it!!)

Lots of SVs and NSVs on here recently- everyone is doing so well! Particularly impressed by those who have resisted buffets, treat nights etc - that's shows some fantastic willpower, well done!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2018 18:11

Well done on your SV, purple Good progress in the 8 stone somethings

Well done on your shorts NSV, MrD

That's excellent work at the gym, bug
21C yesterday & today, but we did have a cold monsoony few days before
This German Spring is very efficient atm Grin - all the rain during the week, then warm sunny weekends

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2018 18:13

Ooh, just seen the coming week or two should be very warm , up to 25C

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 14/04/2018 18:22

Interesting
I've been in France for a couple of days .....

  • no snacking
  • no street eating
  • sit down meals for everybody (even in KFC !!!)
  • kids menus are just smaller portions of adult food
  • small wine glasses
far fewer fat people funny that
OohMrDarcy · 14/04/2018 20:06

Fab work on the exercise bug! It's been up to 16 here... managed to dry washing outside and everything!

Bcf we have warmer weather come for the next week or so too... makes a nice change!

Tip hope you enjoyed France, all those factors you mentioned would certainly help towards the less fat people bit!!

quackingduck222 · 14/04/2018 21:19

Well done purple that’s absolutely bloody fantastic.

Well done southeast. Your so very close now and you will absolutely smash it.

Well done on your FD Cheshire

Well done on your clothes victory Darcy that is wonderful.

Bloody hell bug that’s a lot of classes in one day. Well done to you.

TiP that’s very interesting to hear, I’ve always thought the French are very similar to the Italians you look around and there all so slender looking. They eat small portions and it’s not all fast food on the go.
Did you enjoy your holiday? I hope you had nice weather.

quackingduck222 · 14/04/2018 21:19

Well done purple that’s absolutely bloody fantastic.

Well done southeast. Your so very close now and you will absolutely smash it.

Well done on your FD Cheshire

Well done on your clothes victory Darcy that is wonderful.

Bloody hell bug that’s a lot of classes in one day. Well done to you.

TiP that’s very interesting to hear, I’ve always thought the French are very similar to the Italians you look around and there all so slender looking. They eat small portions and it’s not all fast food on the go.
Did you enjoy your holiday? I hope you had nice weather.

MightyMunki · 14/04/2018 23:05

It’s really lovely and motivating to read everyone’s stories. I’ve been lurking for the last few months... but I’m going to use your victories to motivate me. Been stuck in a downward spiral since the start of AprilBlush.

I’m finding it really tough not to snack, I get on ok on the FD’s but seem to undo all my hard work lately through snacking on the NFD’s!
I felt like I did well for the first three months of the year but I’m really struggling lately. Anyone else feel like this?

I’m gonna whip out MFP again and start to hold myself accountable.

MazDazzle · 14/04/2018 23:25

After recently squeezing into my old size 12s lurking in the back of my wardrobe I have more NSVs to report!

Ordered some summer clothes from Next and all of the size 12s fit with room to spare. Tried some clothes on in Asda today (their sizes are ridiculously huge) and managed to fit into a couple of 10s and even an 8. Now of course, I know I’m not a size 8. I’m barely out of a 14, but not that long ago I was wearing 16s and even 18s from the very same shop. I’m delighted!

MazDazzle · 14/04/2018 23:28

Hi Mighty! Welcome to the thread.

Well done for your progress in the first 3 months. If you’ve done it before, you can do it again.

I’ve gone through phases where I just can’t knuckle down to it, but then something just clicks.

Has anything changed in the last month that’s getting in the way?

Have you tried 16:8 on NFD?

MightyMunki · 14/04/2018 23:35

The only change is I’ve switched to the mini pill from combined about 6 weeks ago. I feel so hungry all the time, hair has started falling out and I just feel so grumpy. It’s really hard to feel positive, I was so much more energetic and motivated before I started taking it.

UnnecessaryFennel · 15/04/2018 08:01

Hi all, just catching up with the thread. Some great NSVs and lots of positivity (sorry am rubbish at scrolling back through but well done everyone! Grin

Woke up really in the mood for a FD. Not got one scheduled and last night dp was muttering about doing a big fry up this morning (we have black pudding which needs eating!) so we'll see how it goes.

It's so interesting though, doing this WOE has really changed the way I think about how much I eat. Because, even if it turns out that this isn't a fast day, and I do have a Sunday fry-up this morning, I'm already thinking, 'well, I could then skip lunch and perhaps just have some soup or something light for supper...'. That is really unheard of for me!

My body looks different. I don't know if I've lost much weight (I'm trying not weigh really) but my body definitely looks slimmer and less bloated. Clothes fit better already. I don't have that horrible sluggish feeling any more and I actually rather enjoy that feeling of 'lightness' you get when you're not full of food all the time!

Just wish my skin would settle down...