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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
OohMrDarcy · 13/04/2018 11:11

Yes bcf, hit 5% on Good Friday Grin, and yes - I'm really pleased I've managed to find a balance in the holidays - next to no snacking, and low (but not zero) alcohol have meant I've been able to relax with the DC and when out for meals over the break and still lose - also used the trick of if I'm going out for a meal that I know I will want to indulge a little and enjoy, I skip lunch before too. Hopefully I'm finally gaining the longer term understanding to mean I don't fall off the wagon again this time and am able to sustain it going forward!

I had a read through the inspirational thread the other day to remind myself where I was before Blush ... is breadandwine still around anywhere, forgot about him! And blossom - I'm still convinced we overlapped when I was in the zone first time around!

snail - well done on no TOTM gain, the whoosh will come Wink

MShip - well done on nearly completing a 4:3 week! Just make sure you keep it sustainable... if you are finding it hard - you could always turn one day into a mini or something, if you still want the boost.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2018 11:22

That was a Very Good Friday, MrD Smile

Mship 4:3 is great for a quick boost for a fixed time - if you are careful on the NFDs - but maybe it is time to move back into 5:2

OP posts:
TheMShip · 13/04/2018 11:59

Yes I'm definitely doing regular 5:2 next week, and today will likely be a mini in the end. It was a great kick off and now time to settle in for the long haul. Big family changes week after next with DH returning to work and me going to 4 days, with all the childcare changes too. DH is also doing 4 days, with a different day off than me, it sounds good on paper!

purpleviolet1 · 13/04/2018 12:34

Indeed BCF

My FD went to pot so here I am today 3rd time lucky!

Quacking that made me laugh!!

Well done darcy, 43 Grin

UnnecessaryFennel · 13/04/2018 12:52

Well done darcy and 43, great results, slow and steady also means sustainable after all!

Doing a mini FD today after yesterday's was abandoned in favour of pizza, chocolate and a glass of wine Blush Grin

Am I right in thinking a mini is around 1000 cals?

My jeans are definitely looser!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/04/2018 13:40

snail hopefully you'll get a whoosh soon after TOTM Smile
Thanks BCF i am fine with the no snacking during the week, but the last couple of weekends I've found the snacking has crept back in, so will try my hardest to sort it this weekend.
yogi like BCF says that gain will be undigested food, so a good week will have that off.
Good luck today purple and fennel - and yes I think i've read that a mini fd is 1000 cals. well done on the looser jeans NSV Grin

TheMShip · 13/04/2018 13:48

fennel A mini for me is about 100 calories, yes.

UnnecessaryFennel · 13/04/2018 14:03

I hopre there's a 0 missing there MShip Grin

TheMShip · 13/04/2018 14:17

Grin So there is, fennel. Damn phone.

yogi47 · 13/04/2018 14:41

Thanks BCF. I can see where it all went wrong this week and why - work took over and I also have not drunk enough water this week. I know that as had headaches, especially on FDs which I don't normally get. So have shopped and planned for week ahead! I plan to be in the 11s over the next two weeks which is only just over 2lb off and totally doable. Big well done to all on the SVs... happy weekend everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2018 16:37

A miniFD is 850-1000 cals
Important: the same FD rules apply about what to eat / drink , so meals should be reasonably nutritious
i.e. no alcohol or junky food, especially no sugary "treats"

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 13/04/2018 17:02

Well done 43 and MrD, especially over the holiday.

Don't worry yogi, weeks like that happen and you're taking control by planning for next week.

Hope today is going well fennel and purple.

I've had a weird couple of days as seem to have a virus which came on yesterday. I did b2b mon and tues, healthy nfd weds but yesterday only had lunch as felt so unwell and today have had a few mouthfuls of porridge and can't manage anything more.

I'm meant to be going to a family wedding tomorrow (starting at midday) so I'm a bit worried about how I'll get through. Will have to see how I feel tomorrow I guess. I was really looking forward to it so very disappointed to be feeling this shite.

MazDazzle · 13/04/2018 17:10

I was wondering about B&W too Darcy. Haven’t seen him on here in a while.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/04/2018 17:28

Oh dear hope you feel better after a good night's sleep lawyer sods law huh Sad

purpleviolet1 · 13/04/2018 18:30

Had a really tough day - da unwell. Was about to throw the towel in but so pleased I haven't Grin going to have omelette shortly when he goes to bed

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/04/2018 19:30

Well done purple Smile

purpleviolet1 · 13/04/2018 20:23

Meant to say ds.

Thanks I've got into bed!

southeastlondonmum · 13/04/2018 20:42

Clocking in after a second successful FD of the week. Looking forward to a weigh in tomorrow as I have clearly lost this week. Have been really good on NFD coming in well under my TDEE.
That said, am losing of my boobs which is annoying as unlike some of you, I do not have enormous Norks. Well done to all fasters

OohMrDarcy · 13/04/2018 21:12

I'm claiming a Friday night NSV!

Met up with friends for a 'gathering' which was to involve pizza, chips and dips, wine... you get the deal! At first I planned to not go, then changed my mind and came up with a cunning plan!

So I ate dinner before I left home (so didn't NEED anything)
Walked to her house 1.5miles each way
Turned up without food contribution and told host not eating
Whilst there was extremely good - ate nothing, had one small glass of wine, lots of water... stayed and chatted 2.5hrs - walked home again.

Had a lovely time, even if I left early - but knew if I'd had another glass I'd have started munching, so am proud of myself!

MazDazzle · 13/04/2018 21:57

Well done purple!

NFD here and I’m really pleased with how it went: skipped breakfast and although I had two social events, I didn’t use them as an excuse to gorge.

The first was a birthday lunch. I had 3 small sandwich triangles, a mini sausage roll and a slice of cake.

Attended a presentation tonight where I knew there’d be a buffet, so I had a healthy dinner beforehand and avoided the buffet completely. Grin

Good luck with your weigh in southeast

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/04/2018 22:36

My mum arrived Tuesday night and it's been really busy - but really good.
Getting lots of jobs done and went out for dinner with DH tonight. It was wonderful. It has been a long time since we went out to dinner!

Hope everyone has a good weekend. I'll be aiming for 16:8 over the weekend and no snacking Smile

CheshireSplat · 13/04/2018 22:59

There's so much positivity here, it's inspiring. mrD how long has it taken you to lose that stone and a little bit?

I've completely fallen off the wagon this week after doing so well on my B2B days at the start of the week. It was the forced feeding due to work visitors on Wednesday that made me feel like I'm destined (not that I believe in destiny) never to do this. I'm going through a feeling sorry for myself period, that I can't lose weight! And I had less than 4 hours sleep last night so have been so tired today, so have eaten too much.

But if I give up now, I'll never lose weight. So I'm doing a FD tomorrow, first weekend one ever, but I've got a busy day; volunteering at parkrun in the morning, more than a 3 hour round trip to a football match and DH is out in the evening so I can choose my own food.

I was wondering what had happened to B&W too so I searched for him. He was in quite a few of the referendum threads but nothing recently. I hope he is okay - a vegan before it became trendy!!

MazDazzle · 13/04/2018 23:26

He had his own website offering recipes and workshops on vegan baking, but I can’t remember what the site was called.

OohMrDarcy · 14/04/2018 07:27

Cheshire, that amount has come off since the start of March.
Try not to feel down. Imagine where you would be without your fasts... they are helping maintain at least, right? Maybe focus on the health side of 5:2 for now and just see how it goes?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2018 07:28

I hope B&W pops back in to let us know how he is doing
He was on the exercise threads and worked his way up from no pressups at all to doing about 1200 for charity - in his late 70s !
That illustrates that it's never too late to start. He was on BBC radio talking about that
Also, he had useful recipes for vegan 5:2ers

Good for you, purple, nailing that tough FD yesterday

Well done on your clever meals out NSVs, MrD, Maz

I hope you feel better this morning, lawyer
If you manage to attend, I recommend that you be kind to your dodgy tum - just have one drink to toast the newlyweds and eat lightly, avoiding any rich / junky / sugary extras.

Good luck with your FD, cheshire
Sounds a busy & very interesting day, with not much time to think about food.

It might have been the b2b that sent you off balance last week - maybe too stressful ? - but stay mindful on the NFDs this coming week and then you’ll be back on track.

Well done on your FD, southeast

Unfortunately, it is very individual where people lose fat.

iirc, you are within healthy weight, so I recommend looking at your waist and going by that when deciding on goal.
First target is waist less than half height, as recommended for health, but after that it‘s personal preference about your whole bod; what you feel suits you.

OP posts: