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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 11/04/2018 21:30

What's even more interesting is if I take it down to 8 stone. Now, to me that looks too skinny. What do you all think? I'm definitely thinking that I'll be at optimum weight very soon - I think I'm in danger of overdoing it otherwise.

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
NoUnderpantsinSpace · 11/04/2018 21:41

bug that’s incredible! That’s an amazing comparison. Thank you for sharing! (I do think the 8 st one looks a bit skinny...) do you feel like you’re nearly at your happy weight?

Hope any Wednesday fasters have had a good day. I’m not doing well at keeping up but I’ll try to keep checking in Smile

CheshireSplat · 11/04/2018 22:42

Bug those knees definitely look too sharp at 8 stone.

GrannyPenny · 11/04/2018 23:20

At 8 stone I think those knees could almost be classed as a deadly weapon Bug!

MFP today came in at around 750 which with yesterdays 500 makes 1250 for the two days, so the equivalent of a B2B. I think this way of 5:2 may well suit me better given my exercise routine, especially splitting the calories slightly in favour of the second day.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 12/04/2018 07:16

Well done all yesterday fasters!

Love the comparison Bug, you’ve made such good progress. Personally, I think the 8 stone looks a little too skinny but it might look different in real life.

FD for me today. Looking forward to it although I’ve woken up feeling very hungry.

quackingduck222 · 12/04/2018 07:47

Username- try upping you dinners but make sure you come back and tell us how you get on.

Fennel - I always find I did get a spot outbreak for a bit on whatever new diet I’m on before my skin really clears up possibly just change of diet. But like lady says if I eat junk it can cause really bad spots.

Bug - I find that really interesting your eating more but loosing more. With your new weight if you went to 8 stone what would that put your BMI at? I think sometimes those visual charts aren’t 100% right for our bodies as it depends where it comes off IYSWIM.

Well done on your FD maz.

Well done on your B2B Granny.

Good luck on your FD today going somewhere

HLBug · 12/04/2018 08:06

quacking that would put my BMI just on the edge of underweight. I'm that bit taller at a whooping 5ft 4in so I think that makes a difference. I certainly don't mean to imply that 8st is too slim (better word than skinny) - as I know you look amazing at that weight and it's where purple is heading as she's felt good there before.

Everyone is so different - I've never been below 10st in my adult life before now, so I'm really not used to thinking of my body in this way. There is also a massive difference between a healthy slim well exercised body and someone who is genuinely underweight eg for medical reasons. Ok, I'm rambling now. Basically- hope I haven't offended anyone Blush

quackingduck222 · 12/04/2018 08:18

Bug of course not. Grin

Also we all carry it very differently as well.

Have you decided on a definite target yet?

My thought on that last picture is a person that size may struggle to buy clothes. Most highsttreet stores only go down to a 8 and where the fashion is so shapeless and boxy atm this May cause a royal PITA.

OohMrDarcy · 12/04/2018 08:23

Morning all,

Met up with friends last night.. there was snacking and drinking involved but I certainly limited it.. only 2 small glasses of wine and some Doritos. I had left 900 cals free to try and make sure I was ok... I did eat more Doritos than I probably should have but I also stopped myself before they were gone, and refused the choc on offer. Hopefully not too much damage done anyway!
FD today so crossing my fingers to at least sts again .. assume a bit late in the week to hope for a loss now but we shall see.

Bug I would agree that the 8 stone image looks a bit too small.

Think I read lots of successful fasts so well done all on those, and good luck to anyone going for it today!

purpleviolet1 · 12/04/2018 08:36

Bug none taken silly. I agree with you and duck

My FD turned out to not be an FD yesterday given it turned into a topsy turvy day so here I am FD today!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/04/2018 09:00

morning all, well done maz Granny and boldly (and anyone I missed)
Wow bug those pics are amazing, but slightly agree that last one is a bit too small, but I guess like you say, it depends on the person, how they carry the weight etc - but they are very motivational. I have never been under 11st in the last 10 years so I can't ever imagine being that small.

Good restraint there mrdarcy I would find it so hard to resist doritos, especially if they were the chilli heatwave ones Grin

FD today and I'm super hungry already, but only tea so far. Good luck thursday fasters, who's with me today??

UnnecessaryFennel · 12/04/2018 09:05

Morning all - thanks for the skin advice, I'll just see how it goes I guess and try to avoid the junk!

Talking of junk...was intending a mini-fast today but the thing I thought was happening all day today at work (and was going to keep me busy and distracted) now isn't happening. So I'm sitting in an empty office and there are creme eggs in the drawer next to me Grin. Not that I don't have plenty to be getting on with here but it makes it a bit trickier! I'll give it a good go though.

TheMShip · 12/04/2018 09:10

That BMI 3D thing is amazing!! I never saw that link till just now. Here is my visualization at current weight (13st 1.4), goal weight (12st), and ultimate dream goal weight (11st). I am 5'7", and much heavier in the bust than the figure!

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
HLBug · 12/04/2018 09:13

quacking yes! Clothes are very boxy and drapey at the moment - I've actually wondered if it's because more and more people are finding themselves overweight and the shops know that baggy sells well when you're not feeling great about your shape. I tried on a size 8 blouse in Oliver Bonas the other day and it drowned me! I like my clothes to be neat and fitted and it's been ages since I saw something I actually liked the fit.

No idea about end goal - I'm worried it's unhealthy of me to keep lowering and lowering it. But I'd never have expected to get to this point, so I've never known what could be achievable. I think 8st 12lb will be a good place for me to finally stop. That would be 4 stone off and a bmi of 21. And then if I get too far over 9st I can bring it back.

quackingduck222 · 12/04/2018 09:18

Fennel - be strong!

I found a good body visuliser app called “my model” it’s good as you can pop in your hight and weight but also for your body shape. I’ve found it pretty generous on the boobage area for mine Grin

quackingduck222 · 12/04/2018 09:27

Bug - clothes shopping is utterly a royal PITA yes I totally agree with what you’ve said.

If your finding a 8 too large you may very be having my issue that not that many shops sell size 6. If you do find anywhere please let me know as I I just want some pretty summer tops.

Also - re your weight. I originally wanted mine to be 8 stone but I deliberately set it 2 pounds under as a marker point. As soon as I see 8 on the scales it’s time to fast. I’ve found it great as in the past when I’ve set it dead on a stone I find myself creeping up and up. Likewise for 2lbs under.

GrannyPenny · 12/04/2018 09:37

I'm currently watching some of the athletics on the TV and none of them look so very skinny in the waist (or so well endowed in the boobage department either).

I am out and about today so goals are no snacking, run this afternoon. No snacking.

Keep up the SVs and NSVs everyone, they are so very encouraging.

GrannyPenny · 12/04/2018 09:44

Fennel - are the creme eggs yours? You do know you can put them in the bin if you don't want them!

snailhunter · 12/04/2018 10:23

FD for me today, going well so far as very busy but blimey, I can't wait for the holidays to be over - so much work piling up.

I reckon a good weight to be is a weight which is sustainable for you and doesn't require constant vigilance. I'm currently aiming for nine and a half stone (am also 5 4") as that seems like a realistic weight to maintain, down from 10st 13lb when I started. Might feel differently once I get there, though - only half a stone to go...

I am also thinking about stopping MFP - again, it's all about sustainability. Realistically I will not track everything I eat and drink for the next 40 years. But actually very hard to stop as I've had such success with it. And that reluctance in itself, perhaps, is a sign that I should let it go. Hmmm.

littleladylawyer · 12/04/2018 10:31

Stay strong fennel! One of my colleagues has brought back lots of treats from Italy (individually wrapped so no poo crumbs!) but I'm telling myself they look better than they would taste.

bug and quacking I'm with you on the boxy clothes! I like things like knitwear to be a bit oversized but for work especially need fitted tops/skirts/dresses. I don't have a small waist for my weight/height so jeans and trousers are the worst- either saggy legs and bum or too tight on waist. I find h & m tops quite good as they seem to come up smaller than in other places

purpleviolet1 · 12/04/2018 11:05

First pic is current BMI 22.9
Second pic is goal BMI 20.4

The arms look a bit bony in the second pic Hmm nevertheless I can't wait!

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2018 11:43

bug I agree it sounds sensible for you to aim at BMI 21.

Are you exercising ?
Some resistance training / weights plus even walking would boost fitness and also help to tone up previously flabby bits, so you feel even more confident at your new weight

  • some folk think they need to lose more, when actually they should "tone" i.e. work the muscles.
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2018 11:49

snail mfp is a temporary tool only, which is only for training purposes, to learn how to eat within TDEE
Many 5:2ers never need it
Those who do, can normally stop once they they have understood portion size & amounts of treats, so they have permanently retrained their eating & drinking habits

Really important, to help you do without mfp:

  • No snacking EVER
  • NHS alcohol limits
  • Sensible about sugary "treats" - frequency & portion size
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2018 12:01

I'm glad you like playing with the body visualiser, Mship;
I intended the link to help people decide on goals.

11 stone would give you a 24.1 BMI, which is absolutely fine if you are large of nork and frame, especially if you have a lot of muscle

Those who are petite may prefer to be BMi 20 or below, but that is not a suitable aim for all body types.
Just aim for where you feel happy with your bod and can sustain without stress.

Rather than a goal weight, I recommend first aiming for waist/height less than 0.5, following health guidelines,
then deciding if you personally wish to go further.

Also, someone who has list a lot of weight might decide to stay at BMI 27-28 for a while, to maintain and consolidate for 3 months say.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 12/04/2018 12:42

It just occurred to me that here I am getting so excited about reaching goal weight yet I would like to ttc no2 in a few months. I may only just get to goal to put it all back on again! 🤦‍♀️