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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 11/04/2018 09:16

Weighed in at 9st 3lb this morning - I think I'm having a mini whoosh as that's apparently 2.5lbs since last Wednesday. Looking forward to a lovely NFD today.

TheMShip · 11/04/2018 09:20

Wow bug, you continue to inspire! Well done to everyone on their FDs and especially those B2Bs, holy cow those are impressive!

Today's my 2nd of 3 FDs for the week and just realized that because last week's were so late (Thu/Sat), I've accidentally been doing alternate days. This is my 4th like that and it's been totally fine so far. But I suspect it is not sustainable. Might try to keep up 4:3 for a while though, as my weekly deficit is less doing the 700-800 FDs.

littleladylawyer · 11/04/2018 09:54

Well done to all the fasters yesterday, and those doing b2b.

Cheshire hope you managed to hold out! Socialising was definitely a big contributor to my weight in the past- I feel like with 5:2 I can still enjoy going out without the extra lbs. it's also helped me to avoid eating or drinking at social events just for the sake of it, I'm more mindful now and happy to turn down the food and wine I previously would have had without thinking.

Well done bug, the whoosh is well deserved as is a nice nfd.

Mship wow adf sounds intense! I'm so impressed you can fast on a weekend. Do you find doing 4:3/ adf makes you eat much more on nfds? Hope today's fd goes well.

MazDazzle · 11/04/2018 10:06

A quick check in. Day 1 of b2b FD. Have so much on this week that it’s the only way I can fit 2 FD in.

Will pop back later to catch up with how everyone’s doing.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/04/2018 10:08

wow well done on your SV bug
mship that sounds intense indeed.
100 miles is amazing duck

NFD today, nothing yet except copious amounts of tea, then a chicken salad for lunch but no idea yet re: dinner.

BCF at what point do I relax mfp'ing or does it matter if I don't? I think for now I still need the discipline of it to keep me on track (especially since my easter wobble), but I would love to think of a time when I could just eat normally and not think about every bloody calorie I consume!!!

Good luck to all fasting today

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 11/04/2018 10:14

yogi to keep going on a hard day is a bigger achievement than sailing through an easy day or giving up. Very well done for sticking it out!

quacking glad you’re getting back to your happy weight.

Not much to report here today. My Mum arrived last night so I’ll see how we go and how much I let her cook Wink

GrannyPenny · 11/04/2018 10:41

Never posted from phone before - rather disconcerting.

Legs are tired this morning so will run tomorrow instead. Walking with toddler will be more than enough exercise. Will see how day pans out for B2B otherwise I may just try a low carb day.

Have a good day all.

quackingduck222 · 11/04/2018 10:56

BCF - it was rare to see B2B going back a few months ago it was deemed hardcore if you did a occasional one but it’s very popular now it’s very impressive and inspiring.

Bug - that’s fantastic. Have you done anything different this week?

Mship - ADF that’s so hardcore! Well done.

43 - I think using MFP is completely your choice and personal preference. I’ve been a bit obsessed with it recently so I’ve stopped. Still in good habits by weighing out things like Greek yoghurt & cheese as these are my calorie bombs but not logging it. I do sometimes go back and track the previous days tho for curiosity.

I think I will go back to logging new items tho as this morning after a good loss I totted up yesterday’s. Was aiming for 800 but was actually 1000 cals as the veggies I bought from a different supermarket were lots more than the normal brand I buy. This is what keeps tripping me up.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/04/2018 11:11

thanks duck this is what concerns me, that if I didn't MFP then the calories would soon exceed TDEE as I am obviously a naturally greedy person so adding an extra scoop of yogurt or sprinkling of cheese etc would come so naturally to me - I guess time will tell. Thanks for the advice :)

TheMShip · 11/04/2018 11:32

Oh wow I didn't realize ADF was considered hardcore! It's really been absolutely fine, mostly I think because I am staying at 700-800kcal on the FDs. I'm not overeating on NFDs, staying in the 1700-1900 range according to MFP. In fact last night I treated myself to a cup of coconut milk pudding, and couldn't finish it! First time that's ever happened. In some ways 4:3 feels like it might actually be more sustainable for me. Having more than two days between FDs sort of puts me off doing the next one. But I love how flexible this is; if I want to 4:3 I can, if I want to 5:2 or AFD or 6:1 or just maintain for a while, that's all ok.

With only 17lb to go till my current goal, I'm starting to wonder if the 11s might be in my future too.

CheshireSplat · 11/04/2018 11:45

I've given B2B a go because of the 650 Cals. Which seem a lot after 500! I think I've only recently realised you can have more.

I'm half tempted when I do B2B to do a mini FD later on the week, but thinking long term I don't think it will help me, as I need to learn what to eat "normally". Doing that may mask that I eat too much on NFDs.

Was so pleased to see breakfast this morning. Came into work and there's a mound of very expensive lovely (M&S) biscuits etc. I haven't folded and NO SNACKING so I've take a tiny piece of baklava to have after lunch.

purpleviolet1 · 11/04/2018 11:51

FD here today. May be getting a takeaway tomorrow night so decided to get it out the way today

Not had anything so far. Might have 1 weetobix for lunch and then have a salad in the fridge with a home made chicken kebab or two

insertcleverusername · 11/04/2018 14:00

Sorry, only just catching up on posts!

Quacking I definitely fall foul of the biscuit tin if I don't eat big enough meals so eating more at tea time would serve me well I think.

I'll test this out at the weekend and let you know how I get on!

Got two meals out this week, really hope it doesn't mess up my weigh in on Friday morning Sad

Bug congrats on the SV! I'm finding these victory stories, S & NS, very motivating!

CheshireSplat · 11/04/2018 16:12

Uh-oh. NFD disaster. We've got company bigwigs over so I got called to last minute lunch with them (crisps, prepackaged sandwich and fizzy drink) no choice, it was meal deal or the sack!!!!

And out for unplanned dinner and drinks tonight.

Lunch was a shame, I'd never normally waste my calories on a 400 cal sandwich but tonight will be fun. Think will do no breakfast and light lunch tomorrow and Fri to make up for it. Can't do FD on either of those days as have evening plans. Oh grrrr, might not get my sub-11 stone in Monday after all.

GrannyPenny · 11/04/2018 17:47

I think the advantage of B2B for me is the second day seems no worse than the first and it just feels like one long FD . Wondering if the health benefits are the same as spacing them out though.

Today is going okay, will eat with family tonight but have told them I'm low carbing so should come in on track for B2B.

UnnecessaryFennel · 11/04/2018 20:02

Well done all who have fasted today! I must admit the discipline of a FD is oddly enjoyable but having said that I've really enjoyed my NFD today. I've decided I will definitely do a mini tomorrow though.

I've not weighed but I look and (perhaps more importantly) feel so much better! The only thing I have noticed that I don't like is a little outbreak of spots (those annoying little whiteheads, apologies if TMI!) around my nose. I don't know whether this has anything to do with fasting but it's the only thing that's changed in the last couple of weeks so I'm putting 2 & 2 together... what do you guys reckon?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 20:23

Well done on your SV, bug really impressive rate of loss when you haven't much left to lose

43 mfp are just training wheels for those whose "natural eating" is well above maintenance level., i.e. TDEE
(most 5:2ers never need to use it)
Once you feel confident in your new habits, then try without for a couple of weeks and see how you go.

duck I don't think you need mfp, because you are maintaining well
It doesn't matter if you are 200 over one day, because I expect you'll naturally be under another day.
Try to relax and only return to mfp if you go above Happy Weight - which iirc is your lowest weight plus 5lb

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 20:28

Fennel People often mention their skin looks better on 5:2 - fasting does help some skin conditions
I can't remember any reports here or in the literature about fasting causing skin problems.

Have you changed soap, shampoo, makeup etc ?
Are you replacing some meals with shakes and bars ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 20:36

You're right, cheshire it's advisable to get NFDs under control, rather than to mask the problem with extra FDs or minis
Otherwise, you'll regain as soon as you stop 5:2, unless you plan it as your longterm maintenance WOE too

  • which many of us do, in fact, both to be able to eat more and for the possible longterm health benefits

Your enforced business feast today though was an exceptional case, so I suggest an FD` or mini at the weekend if you can't fit it in earlier.

OP posts:
UnnecessaryFennel · 11/04/2018 20:38

Nooooo, definitely no shakes or bars, vile things! Using all the same skin products as well.

It may just be coincidence I guess; I hope so because I love this WOE but I can't stand these horrid painful little zits...

HLBug · 11/04/2018 20:49

fennel I've found the Paula's Choice BHA liquid that is always talked about over on Style & Beauty to have worked wonders for my skin. I've been using it once a day since Christmas and really haven't had a bad breakout since. You can buy travel sizes from their website if you fancy trying it without committing to a whole bottle.

quacking / bcf nothing different this week - in fact if anything I've eaten more! I've been loosing really, painfully, slowly the last 2 months or so (remember my post from a couple of weeks ago asking BCF whether a 2lb loss per month was reasonable or not) so actually a whoosh is probably just settling that out.

Long may it continue! Although I'm starting to find some unexpected issues with my new shape. So, for example lying on my side in bed I normally have my legs together (foetal position I suppose) but I've noticed recently that my knees are becoming more knobby and it's starting to feel strange / not as comfortable lying like that now!

MazDazzle · 11/04/2018 21:19

You could try sleeping with a pillow between your knees bug. That’s what I do (though my knees are cushioned enough!).

MazDazzle · 11/04/2018 21:23

Successful FD. Didn’t eat anything all day, then had 2 bowls of broccoli soup. Haven’t sat down all day! We’re getting work done to the house, so I’m having a huge clear out and ripping back as much as I can before the workmen start. Hopefully tomorrow’s FD will be as easy.

HLBug · 11/04/2018 21:26

I had to put the duvet between them last night Maz and ended up roasting as a result. I thought my days of sleeping with a pillow between my knees (due to SPD) were all over after DC2 was born!

Here's a laugh for you all. I don't really have any before or after pictures to show you, but I've just done the 3D BMI visualisation thingy from the OP. Holy moly...!

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
littleladylawyer · 11/04/2018 21:28

Fennel I've found fasting makes my skin more sensitive to junk- if I eat too much sugary food I get a breakout on my chin pretty much the next day. Not if I just have the odd choc bar but if I eat sugary crap all day. Another reason for me to try to stick to healthy food as much as poss!

Cheshire that's annoying about lunch, I hate it when I have to 'spend' calories on something I wouldn't choose. Thankfully situations like that don't seem to happen very often but it's frustrating when they do.

I've got a wedding on Saturday and a tight dress to fit into so keeping quite strict on nfds until then, but I've decided that next week I'm going to take the plunge and try no mfp. If my clothes feel tighter I know I can fix it well before the summer but I want to see how it goes following my natural eating.

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