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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 16:01

Oh bug that is tough!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 16:24

Thanks mship Smile

quackingduck222 · 10/04/2018 17:43

Fennel - last week I did a FD at 500 and did a unexpected B2B at 800 the next and it worked really well for me.

BCF - would it be possible to add a section on the opening post with a bit about b2b day’s at 650.

UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 17:57

Excellent, thanks quacking, will enjoy my mac and cheese then!

littleladylawyer · 10/04/2018 18:16

Argh bug that's the worst. Hope you managed to stay strong.

fennel enjoy your mac and cheese, I think having up to 800 or so would be fine as you only had 500 yesterday. If you feel you need to you could always have a mini fd later in the week, but I'd say it's a good b2b.

I got weighed at the hospital today and have stayed the same as last time I was weighed in mid December. Given Christmas, a skiing holiday, lots of birthdays, hen dos and many weekends stuffing my face I'm thrilled! I still want to work on being healthier at weekends and stop mfp during the week but I'm so happy this woe is working for maintenance without depriving myself. Thanks so much everyone for your support and advice over the past few months.

Chicken stir fry with mountains of veg for dinner then my fasting for the week is complete!

DarkDarkNight · 10/04/2018 18:20

Second day of my b2b fasts today - keen to get them out of the way this week. I stuck to 500 yesterday but might creep up towards the 650 today.

UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 18:23

Yes, good point lll, I could do Thursday as a mini day as I'm busy all day and won't be fussed about eating until I get home.

OohMrDarcy · 10/04/2018 18:42

Change of plan here... work was so busy that I made it home just after 5pm having had nothing to eat, so went in for a last minute FD... had paprika chicken and cauliflower cheese.. which was delicious!

Hope everyone else is having a good day!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 19:15

Good idea, duck
Now b2b has become a lot more popular over the last couple of threads, I'll add a couple of sentences in the next OP

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 19:17

Fennel In b2b, 800 cals would be ok for FD2, if FD1 was 500-550
You started FD2 already in a fasted state, so imo one can be more generous with FD2 if need be

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 19:18

Excellent opportunist FD, MrD Grin

OP posts:
HLBug · 10/04/2018 19:28

I resisted the chips Grin

B2B Day 2 closing on about 658 calories. Going to make a special trip to the naice sandwich shop tomorrow, guilt free.

purple I missed your SV earlier - you're definitely well into the 8s now, congratulations!

quackingduck222 · 10/04/2018 19:34

Thanks BCF, yes B2Bs are becoming increasingly popular.

Well done Darcy, sometimes unexpected FDs are the best.

I’m super chuffed with myself today, crossed the 100 mile running mark since 1st January. And I hate to say it but I’m starting to enjoy it. Wow 5:2 has changed me Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 19:35

Well done all who have finished b2b today, how nice for it to be over for the week.

successful FD here, kitchen closed at 515... chicken with stir fried carrots, courgette, mushrooms and ginger. Homemade banana and pecan cake is calling to me from the kitchen, need to repeat 5:2 mantra all evening I reckon Shock

Nearly there Tues fasters Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 20:01

Well done on nailing your b2b, 43, bug

and well done on your 100km running NSV, duck

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 20:03

oops, good FD, for 43

Time to clean your teeth, fasters, to avoid the temptation to nibble

OP posts:
insertcleverusername · 10/04/2018 20:48

Well done to all FDs and b2bs today!

I've closed the kitchen on 600 today as it was a b2b; it's been a hard day in terms of 5:2 and pleased it's done for the week. Just got to keep it healthy for the rest of the week (eating out on Thursday and Friday this week, eek!)

I'm really going to work on the no snacking this weekend; I'm thinking of doing some proper exercise but also make my meals healthy but more substantial so I can get myself out of the snacking habit, as I often just eat small meals at weekends that don't leave me satisfied and then I end up eating rubbish in between.

Good luck to all the remaining FDs this week; you've got this!!

CheshireSplat · 10/04/2018 21:24

Ohhhh I'm hungry! At the end of the second day of b2b. I'd like to go to bed, but DH will be arriving home in about 2 hours after a 4 hour journey with 2 small children so I need to stay up and help him put them to bed. Not sure how to get through - can't lock the kitchen, it has no door!

Have had a great b2b calorie-wise - pretty bang on the 650 today. I did snack though on a packet of crisps at 4.30. Extraordinarily unhealthy but I was test-driving a car after work and knew I wasn't going to be eating til at least 7pm and I couldn't bear to wait anymore. Stayed within my target 650 though by not having any accompaniment with my casserole tonight. I know from experience I can't take "healthy" snacks to work and keep them in my drawer because they're all gone by 10.30!!! So, I'll keep my drawers empty and risk the odd upset every few weeks. But that's my first snack since Friday or Saturday.

Got home and was eating within about 5 minutes thanks to my bulk cooking last night.

Littlelady we sound very similar (except I think I'm 10 years older than you - 40). Lots of socialising (I did a lot more before I had children) and I think we do the same job! BCF has been advising me recently as I'm maintaining rather than losing - I've been okay with the maintaining but am ready to move into the losing straits!

Well done all FDers and B2Bers today.

UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 21:31

Kitchen has closed on around 600, which I'm really pleased about. DP is scoffing chocolate beside me, but I'll have some tomorrow. I love this WOE - so easy!

Well done everyone who's managed a FD or b2b today!

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 10/04/2018 21:42

I ended up a bit busy and forgot to stop for a proper lunch.... so I did a B2B with both days coming in around 600.... now I’m off to bed. Looking forward to tomorrow (and eating Wink )

CheshireSplat · 10/04/2018 21:56

Me too Underpants Roll on breakfast!!!

yogi47 · 10/04/2018 22:36

B2b - 700 calories both days but have found it tough going this week!! Sad... night all!

GrannyPenny · 10/04/2018 23:07

Congratulations on your 100 miles Quacking, a great achievement.

Had a few wobbles today, particularly late afternoon. Was not looking forward to pilates this evening, but although tough as the moves were done at a snail pace, it was actually okay. According to MFP only 140 calories burned in the hour though!

FD came in just over 500. Not sure if I'm going to b2b tomorrow as the few hours of toddler entertaining has turned into 11 hours. Will see how it goes. I should also be doing a 30 min run at some point. Should. Whatever I decide, snacks will not be invited.

Well done on so many successful FDs and B2Bs today. Remember Yogi it's the tough ones that make us stronger!

quackingduck222 · 11/04/2018 08:00

Well done 43 and fennel on your FDs.

Well done on your B2B username. Can you have a larger portion at tea time? I have a really large portion at tea time. I did have good intentions to reduce my amount but if I do I find myself wanting more and then the temptation is there.

Well done on your B2B Cheshire and Yogi and well done for seeing it through and you can relax now your done.

Thanks granny, well done on going to Pilates despite not wanting too. I know that feeling too well GrinAnd great job on your FD.

I did a blind FD yesterday and didn’t bother with MFP but it’s worked as was over happy weight yesterday and lost 2lbs overnight so exactly where I wanted to be.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 08:19

Morning all Smile

Well done on nailing your b2b, insert, cheshire, underpants, yogi, fennel and everyone else who fasted.
You did really well to persist when the going got tough, yogi and now you can relax with NFDs all the rest of the week.

This is very interesting : b2b used to be a rare choice and as duck pointed out, atm seems mainstream on these threads - you're a strong bunch !

That's right insert to give up weekend snacking, you need decent sized meals that leave you satisfied.
No need to mfp, just make sure you know what your meals will contain and you have all the ingredients to hand.

Example weekend plan:
(if you have breakfast) B: porridge & berries / full-fat Greek yog, berries & seeds / eggs / pnut butter on wholegrain toast
L: Fish & salad (Sat) / Roast (Sun)
T: Chicken & veg soup / an open sandwich
S: Main meal (Sat) / lighter meal (Sun)

OP posts:
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