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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 07:18

Well done mship

Fd here today but I've really struggled this weekend - think the sts on the scales had something to do with it, made me feel a bit despondent even though it was better than a gain. I also have a beautiful dress I want to get into for a party in June so stupidly thought I'd see how far off I am from it fitting and I'm miles away Sad there lies a slippery slope to feeling crap about how I look and then snacking creeps back in and oh that vicious cycle starts all over again...

Hoping to curb it with a good fd today... good luck to the other Tues fasters ...

UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 07:57

Morning all! Working from home today so going to try and give day 2 of my first b2b a go. Have plenty of bovril in the cupboards so should be ok Grin

quackingduck222 · 10/04/2018 08:18

Well done everyone on Monday FDs.

And good luck to everyone on b2bs.

Well done Mship, sometimes it’s very tricky to avoid situations like that. A treat doesn’t equal a bad day or a bad week. It’s good your learning to relax around food and not beat yourself up.

FD here today of fish and veggies and I’m looking forward to it as I’m slightly over my happy weight atm.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 10/04/2018 08:33

Good luck to all Tuesday fasters. Did think about a b2b this morning but decide against it. I’m tempted to try next week though.

On the plus side, I could see a bit of my waist this morning - the shape was there again. No longer hidden by a ballooning tummy. Grin

Iamblossom · 10/04/2018 08:53

Morning all.

Weighed in - lets just say I'm doing a b2b...Shock

GrannyPenny · 10/04/2018 08:56

Quick check-in for accountability before exercise class.

FD for me today. Mantra is - "it's for my health now and in the future".

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 09:00

Good job, Monday fasters

Well done on your SV, Mship and for learning to be relaxed when you have to adjust a day.

Great positive mantra, granny

Concentrate on what you have achieved already, 43 and be proud of SVs and NSVs

That weight didn't all come on over a few weeks, so it will take months to lose
So try to relax and be patient with yourself.
You are doing your best and we all have to progress step by step.

If you've a fair bit to lose, then divide your goal into lots of mini-goals and just focus on the next one.
It's motivating to celebrate each 5lb, each 10lb, each stone

Avoid setting yourself time limits that are too tough
If you can focus and average 1lb per week, then the weight will come off gradually, but it will come off and you will see the difference at each milestone.

Develop the habit of non-food rewards and non-food ways of comfort:
e.g. painting your nails (keeps your hands busy too, away from the biscuit tin), home spa mask, new book or new film, turn on your fav music full blast and dance around, a relaxing walk in the sunshine … any positive things that you enjoy

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 10/04/2018 09:11

Morning all, was woken at 5:30 this morn 😱 by teething ds. Hit a new low - 8st 12.8lbs. Love to see the scales coming down

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 09:57

thanks BCF, the advice is most welcome.
I have at least another 2 stone to lose, it just seems such a long way off, and I am a very impatient person and what I've realised is that the scales affect me more than I thought, but I'm not sure I can be one of those people that doesn't weigh and just goes off their clothes etc - its a double edged sword!!!

well done purple that is fab :)

insertcleverusername · 10/04/2018 09:58

Purpleviolet I feel your pain, I had a disrupted night with an unhappy toddler, and now I'm struggling with my b2b today and it's not even 10am!

Well done on the SV too, I'm hoping to get to that number on the scales by my wedding day, I've got 144 days to get there!

Kitchen closed at 512 last night which I was pleased with. Wanted to try for a 500 cal day, but as it's a b2b, I will go with the 650.

I hope all FDs are going well today and good luck to my fellow b2bs.

littleladylawyer · 10/04/2018 10:38

Well done purple, sorry about your and insert's disrupted night's sleep though.

43 sorry you're feeling a bit despondent. I definitely understand the impatience to get to where you want to be, but you are being proactive and making the necessary changes. I don't weigh myself, just try to maintain by the fit of my clothes, as otherwise the number has far too much power over my mood.

Just had a phone call from drs and they want to do a fasted blood test as well as the other tests this afternoon so might as well carry on with the planned b2b! Luckily I've only had water since 9pm last night anyway, but a bit of notice would have been nice!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2018 11:02

Well done on your SV, purple and your latest low milestone

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 10/04/2018 12:15

43 - despondency is something we are all familiar with when the scales refuse to budge, one of the reasons i've taken to heart TIPs reminder that this WOL if for health reasons. Are there any targeted exercises you can do to tone up and help ease you into your dress? I've come to the conclusion that I really don't enjoy running, but its the best exercise i've found to tone the thighs and bum, so I stick with it.

Goals for today; exercise class - done; drink less coffee and more herb tea - a work in progress; sow some tomato and sugar snap pea seeds. It's another miserable day here so am adding vitamin D drops to the mix. I also appear to have booked a pilates class this evening so I'm hoping its not too difficult.

purpleviolet1 · 10/04/2018 12:32

Thanks BCF. No further with adding exercise in, just can't get into a rhythm with it. Dropping ds to nursery and then coming home to do some beginners Pilates

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 12:47

thanks little and granny I know I shouldn't be so despondent and I should think about the health benefits. Exercise is something i don't do above walking quite a bit, I do need to do something so will look into it. There is a couch to 5K locally on a weds evening but I've yet to go as weather has been so bloody awful - how daft is that, if I waited for nice weather I'd never sodding go Grin

Good luck with the pilates purple

TheMShip · 10/04/2018 12:53

43 walking is great exercise generally, but those high intensity workouts BCF recommends are good fun and quite quick. I'm trying to commit to doing two a week; they seem to be having an effect on my stubborn belly fat. DS (6) thinks they are hilarious and DD (2) tries to copy me.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 13:00

mship do you do those online at home? Have you got a link??

TheMShip · 10/04/2018 13:09

43 Yes, I do them at home. There's some examples in the top post on the [https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/2369081-5-2-IF-Exercise-Fitness-Thread-Number-3-Advice-and-information-for-those-following-Intermittent-Fasting-and-anyone-else-too 5:2 exercise thread]. I like to do a mix of stuff rather than repeat one exercise with the intervals; it keeps the kids entertained.

TheMShip · 10/04/2018 13:10

Oops link fail. Try 5:2 exercise thread.

purpleviolet1 · 10/04/2018 13:21

Birch oil arrived it smells heavenly! Is there any particular technique to follow?

HLBug · 10/04/2018 13:24

I'm in a large open plan office and all I can smell is chips... I'm actually drooling. Day 2 of B2B was going so well Angry

quackingduck222 · 10/04/2018 13:26

Purple - I just give mine a nice rub in. Did you order via amazon snail mail too Grin

And that’s bloody fantastic on your SV. 8’s. Amazing! Xx

quackingduck222 · 10/04/2018 13:27

Bug - keep strong! Remember you can have them tomorrow!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/04/2018 13:32

argh bug how rude - stay strong!!!!

UnnecessaryFennel · 10/04/2018 16:01

Day 2 of b2b going ok so far, but I am looking forward to dinner... Have had one cup of tea, one of Bovril and plenty of water. I've even managed to do the weekly shop without being tempted!

DP has however just informed me that we have macaroni cheese with pancetta for dinner - forgot to tell him I was fasting today too. A small portion with some salad will be ok though I reckon.

However, I only used 500 cals yesterday as I didn't know if I was definitely going to go for the b2b - so would it matter hugely if I went a bit over my 650 'allowance' today? 1300 calories in 60+ hours (Sunday evening to Weds morning) seems fairly restrained all things considered!

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