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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
littleladylawyer · 09/04/2018 16:19

Hi all, checking in for a fd. Have been in a meeting until now, there were sandwiches etc at lunch but nothing tempting! Need something hot today so think chicken breast and lots of veg for dinner.

At the moment planning b2b tomorrow but have tests at dr tomorrow afternoon so might put fd on hold until later in the week depending on how I feel after.

Hope everyone's fds are going well- not long now!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2018 16:43

Stay focused, Monday fasters, not long until supper Smile

That's excellent progress with fasting, bug

lawyer If you have doc & medical tests tomorrow afternoon, then do prioritise that
So, I strongly recommend you make tomorrow an NFD
Depending on the type of tests, a b2b might even skew the results one way or the other; also, you don't want the doc to ask why your tum is empty, if they are using a stethoscope at all.

(limping) blossom After that hols, drink lots and lots of water, because flights make one dehydrated anyway - but try to sit near the loo on the place !

insert That's really good you've stopped the weekday snack habit. Now just extend that to weekends and you'll have it nailed.
no snacking is a longterm habit we need for maintenance and lifelong.

granny Breaking free of the snack habit is your task #1, too, to make no snacking your lifetime habit.
Task #2 is to figure out why you feel compelled to eat cake if it's in the house.
Is cake a particular weakness, or anything sweet & junky ? Chocolate, or biscuits too ?
If so, would 1 month totally without sugar help kick the sugar crack ?

underpants You sound very determined.
This is the time and this is the WOL for you.

OP posts:
UnnecessaryFennel · 09/04/2018 16:51

Just heading home, looking forward to dinner but have found this FD easier than I thought it might be. Spoke to my fasting colleagues who both do Mon and Weds - I will probably end up moving my days around a bit more than that but it's good to have some extra support in the office!

Had half a cup of tea this morning with a tiny splash of milk, then a coffee at lunchtime, water the rest of the day. Even managed to teach a two-hour seminar without resorting to the snacks, so very pleased with how it's gone.

Am tempted to go for a b2b as am working at home tomorrow but will play it by ear. It's either that or fast on a Friday which I'd prefer not to do if possible!

MazDazzle · 09/04/2018 17:01

Wow! So many fasters today. Hang in there, you’re almost there. I’ve postponed my FD until tomorrow because my youngest was up half the night and subsequently, so was I!

Had my kettlebells class this morning. Alternated double kettlebells (2 x 10 kilos), with single (14 kg). I’ve never managed a 14 before! Have only just mastered the 12, so I’m super pleased.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2018 17:05

Great kettles pb, Maz

Excellent FD so far, fennel especially the no snacks
If you keep supper low GI - plenty of protein and masses of veg - that sets you up well tomorrow to do a b2b if you want.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/04/2018 17:21

Afternoon all

Busy first day back at work today! I'm going for my first ever b2b weds / Thurs as I. Travelling lots with work this week and it will be quite unpredictable until then. I'm pretty confident that it will go Ok.

Blossom glad you survived your holiday! Plenty of water to help flush it all out!

Little NSV for me today, hack in work trousers I had give up on a few months ago!

snailhunter · 09/04/2018 18:15

You can do it underpants!

Well, I'm on the home straight now - was easier today than I expected! Looking forward to my home-made low-cal chicken curry. Though I had a herbal tea in the cafe while the boys had lovely berry smoothies, and the tea was DISGUSTING. Ugh. Supposed to be citrusy but tasted like warmed-up cough medicine. Can still taste it now!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 09/04/2018 18:18

FD over and kitchen closed at 563. Slightly over but I’m happy with that.

I’ve decided not to weigh myself but monitor waist/stomach size as that is where my weight sits. I also have some ‘trousers of truth’ that I need to be able to fit back it into. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2018 18:22

Well done on your FD boldly
That's fine to go by clothes fit, especially if scales might stress or discourage you,

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2018 18:26

Snail There are some foul herbal concoctions for the unwary Grin
Herbal teas I enjoy:
hibiscus, mint, lemon & ginger, mint, fennel & aniseed
Also rooibos, which is naturally sweet

I trained myself to enjoy all teas, including green, without any sweetener, but that's not essential.

OP posts:
NoWayNoHow · 09/04/2018 19:06

Well done all FDs today, and well done Darcy on your NSV. I've some jeans that are my first goal - can just get into them at the moment, but can't keep them on very long cos they hurt my stomach Blush

Kitchen closed today for me on 540cals. Pretty easy today, which I'm pleased with because I thought it would be more difficult with only a 1 day gap in between.

How's everyone else found the day?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2018 19:22

Well done on your FD, noway and good luck with the comfy jeans goal.

OP posts:
UnnecessaryFennel · 09/04/2018 20:16

Kitchen closed on around 500ish I think although I've not actually calculated properly. Three small strips of pork belly, cabbage and green beans.

I might well do a b2b tomorrow; today has been easy peasy and I assume I can have 650 cals tomorrow?

littleladylawyer · 09/04/2018 20:18

Fd done at 400 exactly after a vegetable and feta bake with salad. Well done to everyone else fasting today. I always feel so much lighter and sort of cleaner after a Monday fast. Looking forward to an early night though.

Thanks for the advice BigChoc, I think you're right, I really don't want to skew any results. Will do my second fd later in the week, and have a healthy nfd tomorrow.

CheshireSplat · 09/04/2018 20:25

unnecessary yes, you can have 650 tomorrow. Happy days!

I'm really chuffed with my FD today. 568 calories. But even better, I popped to Iceland on the way home, bought lots of ready chopped frozen vegetables so I didn't have to chop and end up nibbling, and whilst tonight's FD was cooking, I cooked a massive veg casserole with a bit of beef (4 portions at 200 cals each) (inspired by BCF mentioning it recently) and pea soup at 230 calories (3 portions). So that's a couple of weeks of FDs sorted!! 😀 All helped because the DC are away for Easter hols for another couple of days, so I could be focused.

Going to have a cup of tea, then close the kitchen. Oh and also I cleaned the fridge which was truly disgusting and took about half an hour. Nearly put me off my tea!!!

Iamblossom · 09/04/2018 20:42

Evening all.

Home from Rome, kitchen closed on 514. Whilst annoying, having a delay at the airport of 2 hours meant I got home at tea time and immediately had a 4 egg ham omelette with salad, instead of getting home at 4pm and having to sit on my hands for a couple of hours.

Have a very busy work week approaching and could easily do another fd as a result - will see what tomorrow's weigh in says, if it's not too bad I'll maybe do a couple of minis.

Well done all fasters today. 💪

purpleviolet1 · 09/04/2018 20:46

Struggling with FD today. About to get into bed with a cup of tea though and early night. No chance of attempting a b2b like I felt able to last week. Just shows how important flexibility in any WOL is

HLBug · 09/04/2018 20:48

Day 1 of B2B closing at 652 kcals and have just finished a Zumba class (which I found much more enjoyable this time).

Lots of Monday Fasters storming it today - and I'll see some of you for the final straight of the B2B tomorrow. Off for a quick shower then early night.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 09/04/2018 21:02

Well done all the Monday fasters!! And also thank you for the words of encouragement Smile it means a lot!

Kitchen closed at about 600 cal today I guess... little bit over but I’m not going to stress about that. My plans for tomorrow have just changed so I might do b2b... I probably won’t. But; I’ll see how I feel in the morning.

I am knackered today. Just feel really done. So I’ll try and head to bed early. I think it’s the remnants of the ‘orrible virus.

yogi47 · 09/04/2018 21:26

Hi all. With you again Bug on a b2b Finished 1st day on 700 calories... my downfall was a fizzy Percy Pig tail - after an 11 hour day, I got in, chatting away to DH about day and before I knew it a fizzy pig sweet had gone in!! Feeling very hungry but will be fine! Hoping day 2 of b2b follows pattern of last couple of weeks where I have found it easier than Day 1! Well done - what a great Monday everyone has had!! Really hoping to go into the 11 stone bracket this week!! Smile

MazDazzle · 09/04/2018 21:30

Love your ‘trousers of truth’ boldly! Grin

TheMShip · 09/04/2018 21:38

Well done all the Monday fasters!

Kitchen closed on 950, a little over what my 800 goal but I'm not unhappy. Was in a situation where I would have been horribly rude to refuse food, so I ended up with a 240kcal tart. I'd intended to do 4:3 this week anyway and really give myself a boost back on the 5:2 track, so my overall deficit will still be fine. I'm getting so much better at not beating myself up when a FD goal can't quite be reached, and about being flexible and honest with myself.

Next two FDs are Wednesday and Friday this week. I'd love to see a SV but I'm fine with just getting my body back in training. I have an initial counselling session tomorrow to address my issues around stress and comfort eating. It's a case of knowing what I need to do to de-stress but lacking the tools to put it into practice!

snailhunter · 09/04/2018 22:13

Kitchen closed at 427! Off to bed feeling righteous. Well done all my fellow fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 09/04/2018 22:27

Big well done for all the successful Monday fasts! Some of you are almost through your weekly fasting already!

Boldly, good luck with the trousers of truth! Keep going and they'll soon fit again.

Mship - exactly the right attitude, tomorrow is another day, and of course it was still a controlled day - how much worse would it have been if you weren't doing 5:2 - thats always a handy one I ask myself!

TheMShip · 10/04/2018 07:08

MrDarcy it's working, and I can do this WOL. Down to 13st 2.8 now.

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