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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
snailhunter · 08/04/2018 16:03

Hello all you lovely 5:2ers. Wow, bug, 50lb! That is absolutely amazing! I'm not sure I could lift that...

NSV for me! Back in January, I cut out pattern pieces for a dress I wanted to make and life got in the way, as it does. Yesterday I decided to get going on it and thought I'd better re-measure myself just to make sure the pieces were still the right size. As I suspected, I've gone down an entire dress size so now having to re-cut the pieces from size 12 to size 10!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2018 16:23

Well done on your dress size NSV, snail
Wow, thank goodness you measured first - it would have been infuriating to invest all the time cutting and sewing, then find you've made a beautiful dress … for a larger person !

OP posts:
NoUnderpantsinSpace · 08/04/2018 16:24

Thanks BCF although that makes for pretty depressing reading... I think less sugar and potatoes are going to be the hardest for me. Although I try and eat healthily and am really conscious of sugar I am bad at avoiding it in terms of carbs Confused

Crisps, deep fried food, too much fruit/fruit juice or dried fruit are no issue at all... which is something I suppose...

CheshireSplat · 08/04/2018 17:33

Just coming back from a lovely week's holiday in France and have read 10 days' worth of the thread. What a treat! It's taken about an hour.😁

My skirt is tight and I'm looking forward to B2B tomorrow and Tuesday after a week's indulgence. I was really good the first few days and then my motivation went and had crisps and nuts. A few times. Still though, I made choices I wouldn't have made a few months ago. Eg I'd made a big thing about how I wanted to go for a lovely set lunch and wine on Friday. But at 11am on Friday I wasn't that hungry so it didn't feel worth it so we just had lunch at the apartment. Another day I said to DH that something sweet wasn't worth the calories. So 2 NSVs; not eating just because it's a plan or it's a meal time. And not just eating something because it's there.

I'm now feeling really motivated. I am at home for the next two weekends which is really unusual for me. Out and about but I'm in control of what I'll be eating, so I should be able to make some good inroads these next 2.5 weeks. Am going to do good as gold b2bs and NO SNACKING on NFDs.

Harking back to something a number of posts ago, someone said something that struck a nerve about not being able to eat what you want on the 5 days. BCF had made me realise I eat too much on the other 5 days. I was thinking that if I ate just what I ate before but with 2 FDs I should lose. But that's not quite working for me. I need to be better than that on my NFDs. I've always been overweight by between 1/2 and 1 1/2 stone and I'm 40 now so I need to make an effort. I need to retrain myself on the other 5 days too.

Sorry for rambling!

snailhunter · 08/04/2018 20:27

Do ramble away, Cheshire. I find this thread very supportive of all my random thoughts!

UnnecessaryFennel · 08/04/2018 21:38

Hello all, just checking in after a lovely and quite indulgent long weekend away which was fab but has left me actually looking forward to a fast day tomorrow! Hope it's not too hard going after four days of food and booze Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2018 21:48

We're all 5:2 ramblers sometimes Smile

cheshire For some folk, there is quite a difference in the amount one can consume to stop gaining and the lower amount one needs to keep losing

You've cracked the first bit and managed to stop losing.
The next step us to work on healthier habits, such as no snacking, NHS alcohol limits and cutting down sugary treats to e.g. every other NFD.

If that sounds tough, maybe change things gradually, Underpants
You could see how you progress with just the healthy habits,
but don't "double carb" any meal, e.g. pasta or bread but not both.

I suggest you begin to try the healthy swaps I posted, but atm keep to the same portion size of starchy carbs,
e.g. if you have 2 slices of toast, just swap to wholegrain or rye, or have the same portion size sweet potato as you would ordinary spud, just not mashed or fried

If you later find weight loss slows rights down, that is the time to reduce carb portions
but for now, see if healthy habits and swaps will work.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2018 21:52

Oops, typo ! (I shouldn't multitask Blush)
cheshire you've managed to stop gaining, which is fhe first step
Next step is to adjust so you start losing more quickly

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 08/04/2018 22:42

Completely agree, BCF

I have have stopped gaining and have permanently lost about 5 lbs. Now for stage 2 which is to lose a stone. Smile

MrsStavrum · 09/04/2018 06:43

Morning all,

FD for me today. Managed not to overdo it this weekend and I didn’t drink so feeling pretty good this morning. I need to pick up some marmite on my way to work but It’s my turn to do nursery drop off which can delay things a bit!

Have a good day everyone :)

boldlygoingsomewhere · 09/04/2018 06:52

Morning!
FD for me too today. Looking forward to it.

UnnecessaryFennel · 09/04/2018 07:25

FD for me, but the first one I'll be doing at work so not sure how it will go. Some colleagues have mentioned lunch out today so I might have to invent a pressing appointment; can't really be bothered to discuss/explain that I'm fasting at this point, or be tempted to break it by eating too early. Or I could always invite my colleagues that do fast, I suppose!

Good luck today, fasters!

quackingduck222 · 09/04/2018 07:55

Well done snail that’s fantastic.

NoUnderpants- just after Xmas I went very low carb for 2 months as a push to loose my last stone. At first it’s hard but it does get easier and a lot of its stuck. I very rarely have spuds now but I have extra veg instead. It’s just become habit now. Maybe give it a try for a meal and see how it goes?

Cheshire glad you had a great holiday. And great NSV. Just reading you post and it struck a nerve with me and how I was when I started 5:2. Do you use MFP? I didn’t use it until late in the day and I wish I did as you learn a lot and there’s no hiding from the figures IYSWIM. Good luck on your B2B

Good luck for you FD fennel, Mrs stav, goingsomewhere.

Fennel others that you also work with fast? That’s so cool.

CheshireSplat · 09/04/2018 08:05

Hi Quacking I do use it sometimes and it is very helpful. No place to hide. We cook virtually everything from scratch and rarely cook one thing twice (DH is a real foodie) so it's really time-consuming when adding a carrot, half a courgette etc etc.... but it does work. DH btw did 6:1 from Jan and lost 1/2 a stone very quickly and is very lean now (which is great for me, having a hot DH! Grin but infuriating at how easy he found it!!!).

Anyway, have been reading early threads (is Bread and Wine still around?) and the inspirational thread ready to motivate myself after a week's holiday. But wasn't needed! Only put on 3/4 lb on holiday which includes Easter and another weekend, so delighted!!!! I'm 11 stone 1.5 now. Gonna get that 10 stone something.... (I've been saying it for a month now) but I have 2 weekends at home coming up so no excuse. C'mon!!!

Iamblossom · 09/04/2018 08:09

[limps back in head hung in shame]

Morning ladies. As predicted I have been awol for the last week or so with Easter eating and drinking, more drinking, and three days in Rome where quite frankly I didn't stop eating and drinking.

Have had amazing time and enjoyed it all but need a clean week and it starts this morning.

No idea about weight gain as still in Rome travelling back today, but I always find a travel day quite good for fasting so that starts now. Can hear my companions eating breakfast and am already hungry! Hmm

Water water water. Feel bloated and sluggish and a bit poisoned!

snailhunter · 09/04/2018 08:25

Morning all! Checking in for FD. It's going to be a tough one: Easter holidays so the kids are home, I have work to do so feeling a bit stressed, pouring with rain so dog is grumpy, and later we are going shoe shopping and to the barber's later. AND I shamelessly bribed kids to come and do boring necessary shopping with a trip to our favourite cafe. So pretty much every FD failure factor for me in there! At least I haven't promised to bake anything...

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 09/04/2018 08:44

Morning! FD here too. DS is home poorly. So I’ll see how today goes.

I had a bit of a sulk last night. Some chocolate and a glass of wine with DH - we rarely drink and it was really yummy. It depressing to knot it’s going to be hard. But.... I don’t like where I am and it’s only me that can change that.

UnnecessaryFennel · 09/04/2018 11:01

quacking, yep a couple of them do, which is how I heard about it. They both look pretty good on it!

Ugh, really have the post-holiday blues. Can't settle to anything productive at work. Not made easier by the knowledge that the rest of my household are still on holiday!

TheMShip · 09/04/2018 11:39

FD for me today too. It's going well so far, only half an hour till my lunchtime veg soup. I will post my recipe on the thread. For anyone who is doing the 700-800 kcal FDs, it's an excellent 200kcal lunch and keeps me going strong till a 500kcal dinner. I allow a buffer of 100 for a miso soup sachet if needed and as much tea as I want!

NoWayNoHow · 09/04/2018 11:47

Morning all. So sorry, off work with DS and haven't had a chance to catch up on the thread from the last few days. Suspect many are FD-ing today, as am I, so good luck all.

Just a couple of handy eating out FD tips I've found because of too much time on the road and too little near kitchen First, Subway turkey ham 6" with salad (no cheese, no sauces) only 277cals. And secondly, Five Guys bunless little cheeseburger (wrapped in lettuce instead) only 292cals!

You're welcome! 😁😁😁

HLBug · 09/04/2018 11:49

Checking in for Day 1 of B2B. The sun is shining and I'm feeling good. Haven't actually eaten since lunch yesterday as we went out to a local hotel - which shows me how far I've come. 24 hour fast not a problem Smile

purpleviolet1 · 09/04/2018 12:08

Checking in for FD today. Have a 5 bean salad if I get hungry before dinner otherwise I'll be having an omelette with the salad later on. Already had weetobix for breakfast

insertcleverusername · 09/04/2018 13:32

Checking in for a FD, doing b2b again this week.
Had a long meeting this morning which went into a working lunch where there were lots of sandwiches, crisps, wraps and all the carby goodness, but I managed to steer clear and just have a cup of coffee and a few berries that were on the fruit platter!

Making shakshuka tonight which is always a winner with non fasting DP, even though it's very low cal.

Wasn't as healthy as I should've been this weekend, not sure what happened. Definitely need to work on the mindless snacking at weekends as it's never a problem during the week.

I hope everyone is doing well with their FDs today.

GrannyPenny · 09/04/2018 13:57

Afternoon all. My weekend wasn't the best for boosting my immune system as three of the family brought cakes for after Sunday dinner; they left some behind and as I have said before, I can't sleep if there's cake in the house so ........ well, suffice to say the leftovers didn't last the evening.

I have an evening run tonight, so Tuesday is planned FD. I may try B2B again, depending on how I feel on Wednesday.

Goal for today - no snacking, midnight or otherwise.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 09/04/2018 15:09

4pm here... marmite time!! Wink