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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
purpleviolet1 · 06/04/2018 08:55

8 st13.7 lbs this morning Grin not seen the 8's for a long time....

Well done to all the other sv - darcy especially!

quackingduck222 · 06/04/2018 09:10

Omg well done purple on your SV that is absolutely fabulous

littleladylawyer · 06/04/2018 09:24

Woo well done darcy, insert and purple, amazing svs.

Good luck today boldly, I hope the migraine stays well away.

Healthy nfd planned food-wise with lots of lovely veg, but having champagne later as it's DP's birthday tomorrow and I need no excuse to crack out the fizz!

quackingduck222 · 06/04/2018 09:29

Insert - that is a low TDEE, Can I just ask you to double check that you are reading the TDEE not BMR reading like I was? I made this mistake early on and was at 1400 for two years but realised it should of been 1600 because I read the wrong figure.

Badlygoingsomewhere - good luck on your FD today. And you will get to your goal weight, this WOL is amazing and can take your body to a weight you never dreamed of.

No underpants- how is the marmite working out for you?

Well done to all the Thursday FDers, far too many to name.

Darcy- that’s fantastic on your weight loss. And your stone off, that’s amazing that’s gone very quickly hasn’t it?

Username - congrats on your SV, that’s fantastic.

Noway - again congrats on your SV.

Some fantastic losses going on today!

insertcleverusername · 06/04/2018 09:39

Quacking my TDEE is 1500, but I'm planning 1200 cal NF weekdays to give myself a bit of wriggle room over the weekend if I need it! I think there are a few people with low TDEEs on here that are doing this?

OohMrDarcy · 06/04/2018 09:40

Purple... amazing SV well done!

Quacking, it has gone quickly but I do have a lot to lose! BMI has just dropped below 40 so plenty to go! Wink

quackingduck222 · 06/04/2018 09:46

Username - yes that’s definitely a great idea and yes lots of others also do that.

Darcy - well you’ve done incredible.

snailhunter · 06/04/2018 09:52

Amazing losses, people - too many to count! But particular congrats to the newbies. Hopefully this will give you the inspiration to carry on!

I'm up 1lb this morning but not bothered: as BCF says, the scales are moving in the right direction overall and TOTM is approaching. Here's my latest MFP weight loss graph which illustrates perfectly how the loss isn't linear but the overall trend is down.

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
purpleviolet1 · 06/04/2018 10:22

Good idea snail to post that for inspiration. Here's mine !

Thanks everyone. Couldn't have done it without your support.

Quacking I keep looking at your photos of 9 stone and 8 stone. That's my inspiration now

5:2 Thread No. 75:  Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.
GrannyPenny · 06/04/2018 10:28

Popping my head round the door and propping it open with my foot.

Today will be a good day - visitors are leaving and my hacking cough is on the way out too. It is a bit of a shocker going in two days from running 5 miles to getting breathless just walking down the street.

I appear to have put on 1.5kg since Monday. Diet has been pretty awful since the weekend with not so much snacking as constant grazing. Hoping a lot will be water retention.

Goals for today. Take visitors to train station. Try not to have too many celebratory drinks and end up snacking.

Have a good Friday everyone.

quackingduck222 · 06/04/2018 10:57

Granny - a good FD will sort you right out. Pleased your on the mend now. Honestly I wouldn’t worry too much, your back and that’s the main thing. You can turn that gain around quite quickly.

Thanks purple. I’m gonna be honest I’m struggling a bit mentally with it all. That last stone has made a huge difference but I’ve not fully embraced it yet. With a large chest and small waist I feel like a walking pair of boobs so I’ve been covering up with scarfs and cardis. Blush

TheMShip · 06/04/2018 11:32

Granny I was feeling awful bloated and up to 13st7.4 yesterday morning. A good FD, lots of water, and getting over the period hump (day 3 today) and I was back down to 13st4.5 this morning. It does help so much with bloating and water retention!

Aiming to hit my no snacking NFD goal today.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 11:52

Congrats on achieving a lower BMI band, MrD < joins in the Happy Dance >

and on reaching the 8 stone somethings, purple < more dancing >

You may oscillate a week or two after milestones, until you are firmly under
The very useful graphs from snail, duck are typical of 5:2, with a few blips around NFDs, but clear downward trends over the weeks.

Well done on your SVs too, insert, noway

duck Everyone here admired your photos ; your proportions looked fine.
Just enjoy your new size and wear it with pride - you earned it with several months hard work

Enjoy the fizz tomorrow with your DH, lawyer

boldly Go for an 800 FD;
also glug a teasp of Marmite now and mid-afternoon - that replenishes salt & other minerals and boost B vitamins,
all of which can help avoid ordinary headaches - it might help avoid triggering your migraine.

I hope that horrid lurgie clears up soon, granny Thanks
Some of that gain may be water retention, with all the gunge in your "tubes", nose, throat etc

Try to rest and have decent meals this weekend, with plenty of veg, to support your immune system cut
and cut out snacks / grazing, especially on junky stuff - that hinders the working of the immune system and can make the snot-fest last forever.

An FD would probably get rid of some bloat, if you feel up to it on say Monday

OP posts:
NoWayNoHow · 06/04/2018 12:19

Loving all the SVs today - well done everyone!

Inspired by darcy I did a quick BMI check and I'm down from "obese" to the "overweight" category! by the absolute skin of my teeth

purpleviolet1 · 06/04/2018 13:19

Grin happy Friday all

Quacking your proportions looked bang on! I think you look amazing. Really nice figure now. Enjoy it

southeastlondonmum · 06/04/2018 13:59

Well done all those with SV. I'm definitely 1lb down - possibly more with my dodgy scales. Husband says I'm definitely skinnier which is great. I'm also really aware of what I'm putting in on NFDs. Really trying to eat healthier most days

TalkinPeece · 06/04/2018 15:22

For anybody who wonders whether they can stay the course
and whether its worth the effort of staying leaner and fitter as they age
watch this ....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43667111

He did the ice bucket challenge when he was 102 !!!!
Absolute legend

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 17:02

Congrats too on your lower BMI band milestone, NoWay
< continues the Happy Dance >

and well done on your SV, southeast and on your healthier habits NSV
Sounds like you've also got an inches NSV - maybe some clothes feel a bit looser now

OP posts:
boldlygoingsomewhere · 06/04/2018 18:00

Kitchen closed at around 650 today which is much better than I thought it would be!

Feel ok on that too - not shaky and no headaches!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 18:35

Well done for nailing that, boldly Good to hear the migraine stayed away

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 06/04/2018 18:50

Wrote a post but lost it. Is so annoying and happens to me all the time. I blame my clumsy thumbs!

Day 2 of b2b FD. It wasn’t planned, but woke this morning feeling in the zone so carried on. My stomach’s probably still full of chocolate and wine! Just had 2 chicken breasts with salad and dressing.

My waist is less than half of my height and if I use a body frame BMI calculator I’m in the ideal range, though not by much. My initial target is 12 stone (almost there) but if I can get to 11 something I’d be delighted. Sounds heavy compared to others, but I’m tall and have a large body frame.

Anyone else with a highish target weight?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 19:06

Well done on the b2b, maz
Excellent that you have waist < half height.

OP posts:
southeastlondonmum · 06/04/2018 19:28

Maz. I'm pretty much six foot. I'm nearly at target (10 stone, 10 lbs) but reckon I could go lower if I want

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/04/2018 19:28

Not read the last two pages but saw you are in the 8''s purple bloody well done Grin

I STS today, I nearly didn't weigh as figured a gain so I'm relatively happy with that. Will go back and read thread but we'll done to those with SVs, NSV's or successful fast days...

HLBug · 06/04/2018 19:33

Ahh purple I'm so chuffed for you! Congratulations on the 8s Grin