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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
southeastlondonmum · 05/04/2018 19:17

Hello all,
Well done all Thursday fasters. Second fast of the week finishing at 500 on the nose. Found a delicious cauliflower rice prepared salad at Morrisons. £1 for a big pot only 148 cal. Had that with some feta for my tea. Usually prepare my only salad but this is a v good standby option

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 19:23

noway enjoy your meal out!

snail snap on the stir fry. But I guess I’m around 550 Cals. Although I’m pretty amazed by that actually!!

Seriously if I managed to mostly wing a FD and am at around 550 Cals for the day then I am soooo pleased with myself!

south it was also my second fast Grin cauliflower rice in a pot from Morrison’s sounds awesome! They are building a new supermarket near us - which is a little posher than what we have at the moment - I’m hoping they will have some fancy prepared veg....

I’m so happy. I’m really really pleased with myself. I’m not planning to weigh again until next Wednesday but I know it will be so tempting to jump on the scales tomorrow....WWYD?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/04/2018 19:25

Ooh you lucky thing, enjoy noway
Well done purple and anyone else who reported svs. Good luck for weigh in mrd I'm in the same boat as you. Kitchen closed at 517cals, hungry tonight though for some reason. Off to Blackpool pleasure beach tomorrow oh the joy! so slightly worried about calorie options.

insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 19:33

Well done to all the Thursday fasters, I've just closed the kitchen at 540: a bit disappointed in going slightly over, but it was a b2b day so not going to beat myself up about it.

Just want to say thanks to all of you today; this thread has helped to keep me on track when I've felt like giving in; the support is a real lifeline.

It's my second weigh in tomorrow morning, slightly nervous as I had a little bit of an indulgent Easter weekend; hoping I haven't gained since I had my initial weigh in last week! I'll let you all know how I get on!

littleladylawyer · 05/04/2018 19:43

Well done maz, mrdarcy, snail, southeast, underpants, 43 and insert! Sorry if I've missed anyone, seems like lots of great fasts happened today!

insert I think you're allowed up to 650 if it's a b2b, as you start the second day already in a fasted state, so you've smashed it.

Enjoy your meal out noway- definitely make the most of an evening with DH.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/04/2018 19:46

Well done insert but yes lawyer is right you get 650cals on b2b...

insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 19:54

Littlelady, fortythree I think you've just made my day!! I'm quite satisfied at my 540 now Smile

HLBug · 05/04/2018 20:18

Wow - so many Thursday Fasters today! Well done guys, you've all done so well. Oh and child free nights definitely call for celebration and FD postponements Wine

Lovely to hear that some many new recruits are enjoying this WOL and finding it enjoyable and easy to manage. Hate to say we told ya so but... Grin

NFD for me today but I'm still soooo hungry. TOTM I reckon. It's also freezing here today despite the sunshine.

southeastlondonmum · 05/04/2018 20:41

Underpants I always weigh after every fast day

purpleviolet1 · 05/04/2018 20:50

Thank you everyone Grin

Noway enjoy and make the most of it!

Second FD today and nearly fell off the wagon. But I'm still here. About to shower and get into bed!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 21:19

Well done on your SV, purple
Almost in the 8 stone somethings

You'll get there in your own time boldly

Good decision to enjoy a rare child-free evening, noway
This WOE is very flexible, which is one reason why it's so sustainable.

Well done on the no snacking NSV, underpants
You may be suffering sugar / junky carb withdrawal symptoms, if you are eating less crap
Most habits take a month to become fixed, but the withdrawal symptoms & cravings shouldn't last more than a few days

bug To reduce hunger on NFDs, try lowering the GI of your meals on NFDs, by:

  • increasing lean protein & veg sides
  • boosting beans / lentils / peas - they stabilise blood sugar and the fibre helps you feel fuller too
  • swap to complex carbs, e.g. replace white rice by brown / red rice or quinoa, replace breakfast cereal by proper oats (not instant), swap mash or chips for boiled / baked / sweet potato, swap white bread for wholegrain or rye bread
  • keep fruit to 1-2 portions per day
  • cut out fruit juice and dried fruit

snail, underpants prepared / frozen veg is fine; whatever makes life easier.

That Morrisons cauli salad sounds very handy, southeast

Well done, MrD, Maz, southeast, underpants, 43, purple and all the other fasters today

insert you did very well - remember everybody that on b2b you have 650 cals per FD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 21:22

underpants On NFDs, the low GI tips for bug should also help you feel satisfied between meals and less tempted to snack

OP posts:
christmastreewithhairyfairy · 05/04/2018 22:03

bcf thanks for the NFD tips, going to give them a go tomorrow onwards.

purple great result! Well done to everyone else with a SV too.

And well done to today's fasters - you've done better than me! I've scraped in just over 500 but ending the day feeling hungry, grumpy and cold Sad. And far too excited about breakfast tomorrow. But never mind.

Lots of people on here doing b2b - please can someone explain the benefits?

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 22:07

Well done on your FD, fairy and enjoy your breakfast tomorrow
Some people just find it easier to get the FDs done if they have a b2b, or it fits their week better
Do whichever you prefer, non-consecutive or b2b

OP posts:
christmastreewithhairyfairy · 05/04/2018 22:11

Thanks bcf

NoWayNoHow · 05/04/2018 22:43

Tapas for dinner, kitchen closed on 1600cals (130 under TDEE) so still finishing the week with a 2,100cal deficit off TDEE. Might chance a WI tomorrow morning but am scared to

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 07:29

Morning, Friday fasters Smile

Sounds like a good week, noway
Try to relax about the scales - weight can naturally vary 2-3 lb over the week, so a blip one week really is, a blip.
The weight trend over 3 week periods is more reliable and if you are keeping to good habits, you should see that trending downwards.

If scales worry / depress you, then you could always go by clothes fit and just weigh every 4 or 6 weeks.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 06/04/2018 07:37

Morning all

1lb off for me this morning, which rounds me up to 1 stone off, and I'm down to the next BMI bracket too!

Grin

Good luck to anyone else weighing in!

insertcleverusername · 06/04/2018 07:48

Well done Darcy! That's great!

Just had my first proper weigh in to see how much I've gained/lost since I started two weeks ago, and I'm down by 3.8lbs!

NFD today, but going to stay mindful about eating healthy and stick to around 1200 so I can have a bit of slack over the weekend if I need it.

Good luck to all the FDs today.

OohMrDarcy · 06/04/2018 07:59

Fab, well done insert! Can't remember how much you said you had to lose, but it's a fab start!

HLBug · 06/04/2018 08:02

darcy that calls for a proper happy dance celebration!

insert well done to you too - great SV.

Good luck to any hardcore Friday Fasters today. NFD for me.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/04/2018 08:09

Great svs mrd and insert Smile

I'm having a rare lie in so will decide in a bit whether to jump on the scales or not...
Good luck if you do weigh noway

NoWayNoHow · 06/04/2018 08:17

darcy and clever well done on the losses!

Thanks for the advice, bcf - now that I'm tracking NFDs for the moment, it feels like a new start, so I'll look at the trend in 2 weeks (when I've been doing it for 3 in total) and see what's what!

As it turns out, I'm 1lb down today so moving in the right direction. Thanks for the luck 43 !

Good luck anyone else weighing today, and also luck to Friday FDers!

insertcleverusername · 06/04/2018 08:18

Thanks!

Not really sure how much I want to lost yet; I'm aiming for a stone and/or enough to stop me looking like a pig in a dress on my wedding day Grin

boldlygoingsomewhere · 06/04/2018 08:49

Well done, Darcy and insert!

FD for me today although I may not be able to go as low as 500 cals. It’s almost TOTM and I’m worried I might trigger a migraine (usually appears at this TOTM if I’ve had other triggers). Will have to play it a bit by ear and possibly turn it into a mini FD if I start to feel dodgy.