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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
quackingduck222 · 05/04/2018 10:22

Insert - good luck on your B2B

Millie Moo: this diet is not obsessive, it’s a part time diet 2 days per week. Although we do come here and have a chat about it most days.

I absolutely love this way of life and will defend it as it’s changed my life. This time 2 years ago I was a obese lazy cow who never got any exercise. That’s to 5:2 and this thread I’ve lost 4 stone have a low BMI and I’m no longer lazy.

Darcy - good luck on your FD

Parsnips & underpants - congrats on your losses.

insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 10:24

Littleladylawyer and parsnips I'm also trying to do b2b and 1200 cals on NF weekdays as my TDEE is depressingly low.

snailhunter · 05/04/2018 10:38

Re stir-fry calories - I usually use the Waitrose ready-made one as a base so I know exactly how many cals are in it, and then chuck in a few extra bits like ginger, broccoli, etc. This one is just 144 calories for the whole bag. www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Waitrose-Mushroom-Stir-Fry/27496011?from=shop&tags=%7C20000%7C20002%7C44330%7C44347%7C44435&parentContainer=%7C20002%7C44330%7C44347%7C44435

TheMShip · 05/04/2018 11:17

Refried bean recipe posted on the 5:2 recipe thread as requested! My burrito-less salad comes out to a 500kcal dinner, either vegan (with 2 servings of refried bean) or vegetarian (1 serving of beans and 1 hard boiled egg).

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 05/04/2018 11:20

Morning all, FD for me today so under control! (we won't talk about the NFD yesterday... I'm pretending it didn't happen)

Planning not to eat till I have a meeting in Pret at 3.45. I find pret great for FDs - I always have one of the spinach and egg pots and a side soup - under 200cals. Does anyone else have any good eating out standbys?

NSV this morning - DH said I felt "harder" (which I read as less squidgy) since starting 5:2

Good luck to everyone else on an FD today!

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 05/04/2018 11:20

And that veg burrito recipe looks fab...

NoWayNoHow · 05/04/2018 11:54

Morning all!

Anything I've missed on the thread today? Grin

Well done on all the SVs today! Anyone else fasting today? Had to have breakfast this morning for the first time on a FD as was so hungry, so am going for 3 "meals" (if you can count a morning banana and an evening boiled corn-on-the-cob as meals...) with king prawn risotto for lunch.

Drinking my body weight in water too to try to flush everything out before I weigh tomorrow. By the end of today I should be on a weekly deficit from TDEE of +/- 3,200cals so will be absolutely gutted if I don't show a loss!

NoWayNoHow · 05/04/2018 11:56

x-post fairy - good luck with your FD too. Pret egg and soup sounds like a great idea... I have hardly any FD eating out ideas so would also love to hear any!

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 05/04/2018 12:00

wow noway what an amazing deficit! hope you get the SV you want tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 12:00

That's an encouraging compliments NSV from your DH,

Thanks for posting a delic recipe, Mship

Hmm, I suspect most of our regular posters have tried 3 days of chores and no sugar, but found that doesn't begin to tackle all the lb / stone they need to drop.
Or the health issues that fasting can improve: insulin metabolism, preT2, PCOS, asthma, IBS, some skin conditions …

Minor tweaks can work for those who have always fairly effortlessly maintained a healthy weight - although tweaks usually stop working even for them, once the menopause hits

Duck "cross-training" is to improve overall fitness for people who concentrate on one activity, i.e. they add other kinds and work other parts of the body.
e.g. your running works your legs and CV (cardio-vascular) system, hence I recommended adding upper body resistance or lifting
If someone concentrated on lifting, I might recommend a spin class

1800 sounds a sensible target, but do try without mfp for a few weeks and see how you do.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 12:06

That's an encouraging compliments NSV from your DH, fairy (don't know why ipad decapitated you)

Well done on your SV, underpants

insert With very low sedentary TDEE, can you try adding short bursts of exercise, e.g. Fat Blasts,which just take a few minutes, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP
They help insulin metabolism and rapidly build up fitness, so that you can then try a bit longer exercise to burn some calories

OP posts:
NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 12:42

Lunch was a big salad with tuna and cottage cheese on... it was yummy!

snail I’ll have a look and see what I can find but prepared veg isn’t big here (in Germany).... at least not where I live Easter Wink there might be something in the freezer section though.

My plan is to take it relatively easy and work at reducing my FD Cals down to 500 gradually. So this week they might come out around 800, next week hopefully under 700 and so on.... but I’m really happy and positive. I feel good and this is easy (so far) and I’m almost over the flu, hurrah!

snailhunter · 05/04/2018 13:13

I always feel very guilty when I used prepared veg, underpants! Apart from squash which is such a bugger to prepare. If I don't get round to buying my prepared thing, I just chuck whatever stir-fryable veg I have in the wok and assume it's OK - you would need so much to go over 500 cals!

MazDazzle · 05/04/2018 13:20

Checking in for a FD. Only managed 1 FD last week and this is my first FD of the week. I’ve also been a little bit of a chocolate glutton. I’m sick of the sight of Easter eggs!

That’s an amazing transformation quacking! I lose track of who’s who and how much everyone’s lost.

purpleviolet1 · 05/04/2018 13:45

Was very surprised to hit 9st 0.3lbs this morning. That's the lowest I achieved two weeks ago - but then I took a break and had no fast days and was hovering around 9st 2.5lbs. One FD on Tuesday has got me back to this weight! I know BCF said it may happen but I didn't quite believe it would happen to me.

That means I can crack into the 8's fairly quickly hopefully Grin

FD today. Not had any calories yet and will probably have omelette tonight.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 05/04/2018 14:23

Good luck to everyone fasting today.
My plan is to do another FD tomorrow.

Well done on your weight Purple. That’s where I’d love to be but haven’t been that weight since my early twenties - have a good stone to lose before I get there! Complicated by PCOS which makes any loss very slow.

NoWayNoHow · 05/04/2018 15:17

Well done purple - great result!

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 15:54

I have been weighing all the veg etc while I have been chopping for the stirfry and I know there will be some spices etc but so far.... I’m at 514 for the day Shock this is awesome!

I’m currently licking my marmite spoon. I get a headache around 4pm and I’m sure it’s a sort of withdrawal so I’m hoping it stops happening in a few days and I get used to no snacking!

littleladylawyer · 05/04/2018 16:04

insert low tdee is such a pain! I really need to increase my activity levels to give myself a bit more to play with- I'm in my late 20s so dreading how low it will get as I get older! BigChoc's suggested fat blasts and short HIIT sessions are going to be the easiest to fit in I think. If only I could magically grow 5 inches!

purple that's great, you must have been eating really well during your break and just retained some water weight which the fast day released.

Hope the fasters are getting on well, it's sunny here so I hope you're also getting some spring-like motivation!

insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 17:30

Littleladylawyer I know! I often feel like modern life is not for short arses; go out for a meal and the portion sizes are more suitable for 6 ft men & women, but I still polish the plate off.

I do a fair amount of brisk walking on my commute, 45 mins each way so I get some movement in, but I'm going to look into what BCF suggested.

MazDazzle · 05/04/2018 17:40

That’s incredible purple! Well done.

Just had my FD dinner of prawns in a garlic, chilli and tomato sauce, served on a toasted bagel (a thin one). Yum! So tasty. I don’t usually eat starchy carbs on a FD, but I was in a hurry. Came in at 490 cals.

A friend just messaged to say she’s coming over later. She’s on the heartbreak diet and is as thin as a rake. Hopefully she won’t bring any tempting goodies. If she does I’ll nod and smile whilst sipping my fruit tea (and drooling!).

Butteredparsn1ps · 05/04/2018 18:10

Littlelady & lawyer yes I have depressing low TDE of around 1500 due to being short and old, well 49. I don't think I'm old but my calorie requirements clearly do!

Better when I'm running- I was doing 3 half hour runs a week, but have been really lazy in the cold and wet. Need to get out there again.

Well done purple

OohMrDarcy · 05/04/2018 18:43

Kitchen closed on 476 today, happy with that. Weighing in tomorrow and hoping to at least STS as have been very relaxed on NFD with the kids.

NoWayNoHow · 05/04/2018 18:50

Aaargghh, FD scupper! DH has quite rightly pointed out that we have no DS with us and the moment and should therefore not be sitting in the house sadly staring at the TV when we could be Doing Grown Up Dining In Restaurants.

He's right, I HATE being stuck indoors on the few times a year when we don't have to think about child care, so will approach meal out healthily and have to sub today's FD for Saturday which is the next time I can do it.

No weigh in tomorrow then, will do it Sunday morning.

Well done everyone else who has been better at life than me today!! Grin

snailhunter · 05/04/2018 18:57

It would be a dull and non-sustainable way of eating indeed that didn't allow for a rare night without kids, noway. Have a lovely meal! Kitchen closed here at around 450. I had peppers, carrots, mushrooms, broccoli, spinach, courgette and ginger stir fry and am now stuffed.