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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 04/04/2018 20:34

BCF I've just spotted a good German word on another weight loss thread that doesn't seem to have a good English equivalent - kummerspeck Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2018 20:57

bug German typically has one word where English would be a phrase
Mind you, the words are usually loooong; I think the record is about 75 characters long !

"Kummerspeck" is weight gained from emotional eating
It would be an efficient word to use

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 04/04/2018 21:24

Correction : I’m no longer a vegetable dodger. 1/2 my plate is always filled with veggies.

BCF in terms of TDEE what would you class 3 x 4 mile runs per week?

Last week on sedentary I managed to go upto 1800 without gaining. 1900 seemed too high and I gained from that. I did nothing at all last week not even normal school run.
Sedentary TDEE was just over 1400.

Or is it a case of trying it out again and seeing what works?

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 04/04/2018 21:26

Or when you go to the bakery (bread and rolls are extremely I important to the german way of life) and buy something covered in “streusel” - which is basically like crumble - it is called “huftgold” = hip gold.... moment on the lips... Grin

I have had a good day today. A couple of very small treats thrown in after a meal as a small dessert and to remind myself not to snack. I think I’ve actually done very well.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 06:49

duck I would estimate moderate activity level for that
btw, I recommend you crosstrain and add 1-2 days per week upper body, maybe dropping 1 run if you haven't the time

TDEE / intake / exercise depends what happens over a period of time, say 3 weeks or more.

I suggest you try 3 weeks without mfp and just rely on good habits for NFDs:
no snacking, NHS alcohol limits, sensible about sweet treats (one small portion every other day ?) and no more than 1 takeaway or equivalent per week.

OP posts:
insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 06:56

Hi everyone,

I haven't managed to read the whole threads once the Easter weekend yet, but it seems like everyone is doing really well!

After a fairly indulgent Easter weekend I'm on day 2 of my b2b FDs, and it's going ok! Kitchen closed at about 475 calories yesterday and I plan to just keep myself immersed in work all day then have a nice dinner when I get home tonight, but tonight seems so far away Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2018 06:58

You are doing very well, insert Just stay focused, stay busy and you'll have nailed your FDs for the week Smile

OP posts:
MillieMoosMam · 05/04/2018 07:06

.....sorry but I get so annoyed at all this...

Total control, obsessive diet plans just don't work...for a simple reason...all your constantly thinking about is FOOD!!!

Ok, I'm not overweight, but I have lost weight when I've needed too - cutting out sugar cravings takes a 3 day purge, stop eating complex carbs - do more, eat less....

...and very much its the 'do more' that works... not in an exercise way but just 'things'...odd jobs around the house, go to an extra baby group, start another book, clean, sort paperwork out...etc

Result - I've got things done that needed to be done, which always makes you feel better, maybe had a few extra nice days out with LO, had a bit of a spring clean, had a few personal pamper face packs...

Side effect - lost weight!

If you overthink you become overfaced and everything becomes impossible - diets!

Rant over...

insertcleverusername · 05/04/2018 07:24

Well now that MillieMoosMam has solved the weight loss conundrum, we might as well stop this 5:2 nonsense and close this thread down...

Hmm

Clearly I'm sensitive and hangry today.

TeisanLap · 05/04/2018 07:33

Ok, I'm not overweight, but I have lost weight when I've needed too - cutting out sugar cravings takes a 3 day purge, stop eating complex carbs - do more, eat less....

Ive needed a laugh today. Thank you so much.

TeisanLap · 05/04/2018 07:36

Clearly I'm sensitive and hangry today.

At least you're not a silly bugger.

OohMrDarcy · 05/04/2018 07:40

Morning all,

Been busy with the DC this week hence lack of posting. I'm going in for FD2 for the week today and just sitting in bed planning my food for the day!

Ignoring the silly lost above of course HmmGrin

UnnecessaryFennel · 05/04/2018 07:54
Hmm

Nothing beats a mindless thread plopper first thing in the morning, eh?

Have a great day, obsessive control freaks Grin

Butteredparsn1ps · 05/04/2018 07:56

Another LB off today. It’s taken a good few weeks, certainly longer than my first attempt at 5:2 in 2012, (Thanks Menopause Hmm ), but I feel like I have finally got into a rhythm that works for me.

I prefer B2B and have been trying to eat 1200 calories on NF weekdays, so that I can be more relaxed at the weekends.

Looking forward to better weather as I’ve not done much running lately.

If only I knew all I had to do was find some paperwork to sort out.

MillieMoosMam · 05/04/2018 08:05

I was kind of expecting that...I did have the same response from a friend but I do have my own personal story on how dangerous these diets can be...Its only my opinion and not meant to offend -

I'll post my story on another thread....hope this diet plan works for you, sure it does for some...for others, like me, not so my (maybe because I am an obsessive control freak.....)

UnnecessaryFennel · 05/04/2018 08:17

buttered, good luck with finding that paperwork. I'm going to try a new baby group. Ds is nearly 15 but I'm sure if I tell them I'm there to lose some weight they'll be fine with it Grin

snailhunter · 05/04/2018 08:51

Hello millie. If you look at BCF's very comprehensive first post on this thread, you will see that this WOE is absolutely not recommended for people with a history of eating disorders. This is a thread for advice and support for those who are doing intermittent fasting. If you want to debate it, do feel free to start another thread elsewhere.

Right, checking in for my first FD this week after a lovely few days relaxing at my mum's.There was chocolate everywhere but I didn't feel the urge to eat any of it. Also did some beautiful runs and some pretty challenging hills! Great to hear about everyone's successes and insights - the low cal veg thing was a revelation for me as well. Massive stir-fry on FDs is my favourite thing.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 08:54

Totally ignoring previous posts....

I last weighed last Monday (so 10 days ago) and I've lost 0.5kg. Only completed one FD so far so I'm very happy with that.

Also did some strength training this morning with my TRX (if anyone has any TRX workout plans they could share that would be fantastic!)

Wishing everyone a good day!

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 08:55

Snail I'm planning a stir fry tonight!! Grin I need to try and work out what my portion should look like though... and chuck in extra extra veggies I guessHmm

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/04/2018 08:57

morning everyone, well done parsnips and well done snail for not gorging on chocolate over Easter.

Millie I think snails advice is spot on and your story might resonate somewhere else on MN but clearly not here.

FD here today.... got a chicken soup meal thing for lunch, and probably a mushroom omelette for dinner. Good luck thurs fasters :)

TheMShip · 05/04/2018 09:12

Snail I'm having veggie burrito (burrito-less!) salad tonight, it's an absolute mound of salad with homemade refried beans (minimal oil), brown rice, and homemade salsa (no sugar). The sunshine makes a FD much happier!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/04/2018 09:35

mmmm i love refried beans, how do you make them mship and what are the calories?

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 05/04/2018 09:37

I was going to ask for the refried bean recipe too forty! mship could you post it on the 5:2 recipe thread too, please?! (Otherwise I will lose it)

quackingduck222 · 05/04/2018 10:13

BCF - I’m going sounds stupid now, what’s crosstraining? I need to do 3 x 4 Miles a week as I’ve signed up to 50 miles throughout April I won’t complete it otherwise.

Treats I have 2 per week and incorporate them in TDEE.

No MFP and guidelines I can do. Thanks for your advice. TDEE Calc now says 1816 instead of 1400 and I think that’s about right for me.

littleladylawyer · 05/04/2018 10:17

Well done parsnips and underpants on your losses, and snail on the no chocolate gorging!

parsnips your plan is the same as mine, b2b (if I can) and 1200 during week nfds then relax on weekends. Do you have a low tdee? I find it so easy to go over mine, especially if eating out so try to store up some cals during the week.

Good luck to today's fasters, and yum to re-fried beans!

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