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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
quackingduck222 · 25/10/2017 19:33

BCF's windless beans Grin that made me chuckle.

Well my FD tea was a ultimate let down. Recently found cauliflower rice and thought it was a good sub for rice. Better then that vile barenaked bullet rice. My thought was it's so low in cals it's great on a FD.

I bought a different brand it was fresh and half the price of the normal packet I get but it was absolutely disgusting hard as rocks. Ate it anyway as was starving but never again.

I may be mad but I'm considering a B2B FD tomorrow as well.

I'm amazed what a shift in mindset I'm having 2 weeks ago I just couldn't fast for the life of me.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2017 19:37

Grilled chicken is a good choice, purple

NFDs are "normal" eating, eat until satisfied, not stuffed to the eyebrows.
Nothing is banned on NFDs, but you get much better results if you eat reasonably nutritious food for most meals, stay within nhs alcohol guidelines and don't eat much junk.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 25/10/2017 19:43

Thanks BCF. I forgot to mention some cheesecake I had when we had guests Blush it had 30g fat, 45g carbs 25g which are sugars and 6g protein.

That is just ridiculous I ate it without thinking with the guests this afternoon

I had a small glass of coke but luckily didn’t finish the can and it’s still here staring at
Me and I’m ignoring it Smile I don’t like flat coke

So today hasn’t been great but at least I have eaten something.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2017 19:43

Any newbies: most folk can lose on 5:2 without counting NFD calories

I suggest trying that for a couple of weeks, just with sensible eating on NFDs and no snacks
If you are losing well, then continue
If not, then probably your "normal" eating is too above your TDEE, so you can then use mfp to permanently retrain your habits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2017 19:50

Going under 200lb will be a great psychological milestone Ollivander
I thought eating more on 1-2 days per week would help - your previous dieting every day may have lowered your metabolic rate
14:10 seems to suit you

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2017 20:04

rhiannon It's tough for you having such a low TDEE, so mfp for you is a good idea, to check portion size and treats.
However, on the positive side, that TDEE sounds like you haven't much to lose

Your weight loss will probably be slower than average:
Someone with TDEE 2000 has a calorie deficit of 3000 cals from 2 FDs, about 1lb fat
whereas on TDEE 1400, your deficit will be only 1800, a bit over 0.5 lb

Don't worry, you'll get there, just focus and be patient.
Be watchful on weekends, because you haven't much wiggle room with the FD deficit.

A few other 5:2ers were also round 1350-1400, but reached goal and have maintained by continuing 5:2, but enjoying eating above TDEE on some NFDs - it gets much easier then.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 25/10/2017 20:14

BCF I guess that’s my concern also, that my tdee is so low that weight loss will be so slow that I’ll give up as I’ll think I’m not seeing results Sad I just need to keep going though

purpleviolet1 · 25/10/2017 20:23

@quackingduck222 just checking I understood your message properly, did you do just toe taps for 5 mins 2-3 times a week ?

Also do you find your veg are quite limited by buying freezer ones only?

peachypips · 25/10/2017 20:34

Hi all- struggling to keep up with you all!

I have had a failure of a day. Managed to fast until 4:30pm but was on a hospital visit with work and had a long drive- fasting and long drives don't work for me I've discovered- I was nodding off at the wheel!

Stopped at the services and was feeling so rough that I ate a massive piece of cheese, some oats and a huge bag of nuts.

Balls. I feel Sad

peachypips · 25/10/2017 20:56

Btw I'm also 5'3"!! And 11 st 12 but wear size 12 clothes. And am a 32G!!

Lots of short busty women here!

OuchBollocks · 25/10/2017 21:08

I'm not short (5"8") but I am busty, in a 34H at the minute though that'll probably go down to something a bit more sensible when I'm not breastfeeding any more.

quackingduck222 · 25/10/2017 21:22

Yep pretty much 5 mins 2-3 times a week. If I was feeling really motivated I'd do it twice so 10 mins but start gently as it can get a bit much.

I'm not a huge veg eater so frozen suits me. I usually buy chopped peppers, onions, cabbage and cauliflower. Also carrot and swede as I use that as a potato sub for shepherds pie / fish pie.
My other half has sprouts, green beans peas and broccoli.

As we don't like what each other has it's a godsend of no waste and saves the hassle of fart assing about peeling and chopping. I find life's to short.
Especially if making a veg based stew / soup it's so time consuming.

purpleviolet1 · 25/10/2017 21:43

Thanks @quackingduck222 !

How long did you keep it up for? Sorry for the million questions

purpleviolet1 · 26/10/2017 09:03

I was going to try a FD today, but realise my food isn’t going to be nutritious or great?

Weetobix for breakfast
Miss lunch
Home made chicken curry and home made chapatti with salad for dinner

Feedback welcome

TheMShip · 26/10/2017 09:05

I think I've had a whoosh! Despite not fasting due to illness so far this week (today will be my only FD, I'm fine now), I've dropped to 13st 4.1

My MFP training wheels are off, I think. I've got a good idea of both NFD and FD calories now. I'll probably have to come back to it now and then as my TDEE drops and NFD's need tweaking.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
purpleviolet1 · 26/10/2017 09:08

Congrats! Looks great Grin

HLBug · 26/10/2017 09:14

purple I think your menu looks fine - I’m on a FD today too if you want to do get through it together?

HLBug · 26/10/2017 09:15

And that is a very impressive whoosh MShip! Glad you’re feeling a bit better now Flowers

purpleviolet1 · 26/10/2017 09:28

Thanks HL bug! That would be great. Grin

HLBug · 26/10/2017 09:46

Good stuff Smile Well, I’m starting off with some water and black tea for ‘breakfast’ today. I’ll probably have an omelette for lunch but I need to go food shopping this morning first.

peachypips · 26/10/2017 09:54

Well done Mship - I need a whoosh! Have a good day fasters- I'm on a NFD today.
Toe-tapping has me intrigued!

SingingGoldfinch · 26/10/2017 10:09

Morning. Weigh in this morning and a bit worried as 1.5lb up. This is my second week of 6:1 maintenance but I've been doing one normal fd and one mini fd. I'm putting it down to that slither of pie I had on Monday. Could it just be a blip or do I need to go back to full 5:2? I don't want to lose anymore but don't want it to start creeping back on either.

OuchBollocks · 26/10/2017 10:23

singing unless you've overeaten by about 5000 calories in a week then it isn't 1.5lb of fat and is more likely to be normal fluctuations. I would just keep an eye on it over the course of a few weeks. I know a lot of my 'gains' or STSs are menstrual cycle related.

rhiannonplas · 26/10/2017 10:31

2nd FD this week for me. I caved in to chocolate yesterday, but I don't think it was by too much.

Does anyone else find FDs easier than NFDs? I seem to be constantly hungry on NFDs but can discipline myself better on FDs.

rhiannonplas · 26/10/2017 10:32

2nd FD this week for me. I caved in to chocolate yesterday, but I don't think it was by too much.

Does anyone else find FDs easier than NFDs? I seem to be constantly hungry on NFDs but can discipline myself better on FDs.

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