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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:00

So on my way home to my yummy low cal beef stew.

I've been in meetings all day where there have been biscuits and cakes out on the table and I didn't touch one!

What I noticed was that most other people didn't either....I'd have been so fixated on how to snaffle as many biscuits as I dared without looking greedy and failing I've never noticed how few people indulge. It was quite an eye opener.

Very much looking forward to dinner. I know I actually can have biscuits tomorrow but I'm actually thinking twice about it which is quite a departure!

Hatemylifenow · 22/02/2017 19:13

FD today. Done well. Had one hard boiled egg mashed with harissa on rye bread. Then dinner portion of chilli (no rice), 250 cals. Left 50 cals for milky tea.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/02/2017 19:16

Well done on the biscuits NSV, Stumbly and for observing the habits of your colleagues - it helps when those around you don't snack.
Even on NFDs, we recommend NO snacking - have your biscuits as your pud, part of a meal
Then in meetings you won't be in the biscuit-snffling minority

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/02/2017 19:18

That's a good FD, MyLife Drink some water after the tea, so you can clean your teeth early, to close the kitchen

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 23/02/2017 04:52

Hi all, have had house guests for the last week and a bit, so haven't been dipping in here as regularly.

Welcome to the newbies!

Two good FDs this week and a successful SV this morning after increases the last couple of weeks. Have now lost 2.1kg since re-starting 5:2 on 16 Jan.

Have to remember that progress follows a plateau - > loss - > plateau - > loss pattern, and not get despondent.

BCF - that snack/insulin spike diagram is really interesting.

Good luck to everyone wrapping up FDS today. Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 23/02/2017 07:04

Well done on your SV, Countess
To boost loss, I recommend you mfp for at least a week, to check your NFDs - experiencing plateaux in the early weeks suggests you are eating back all the FD deficit sometimes

OP posts:
hollolew2 · 23/02/2017 07:27

Marking my second fast day of the week spot. Have struggled to get back into it after Xmas ( mum-in-law in hospital then a lousy cold that wouldn't clear up) lost a 1lb last week so hoping to get on the scales tomorrow & ive lost another one!! Good luck to all the Thursday fasters.🍀🍀🍀👏🏻

OldBooks · 23/02/2017 07:28

Right I am doing a 16:8 day. Not too bad a night with the baby and nothing planned this morning. I can last till 12 to eat if I keep busy and drink buckets of tea (I don't have milk in tea so basically hot flavoured water). Wish me luck!

StumblyMonkey · 23/02/2017 07:33

Second fast day done and weighed in this morning. I didn't weigh beforehand so this counts as my starting weight...18st 1lb

I looked noticeably slimmer and less bloated this morning after the 2 FDs so imagine I did lose a bit but I'll start weekly weigh ins from now.

Using MFP today to track my NFD eating as I know I could easily eat back the deficit and then some if I don't.

My TDEE is 2200 because I'm a fatty heavy. How often should I recalculate my TDEE, every half a stone loss?

MummyPigLovesAppleSauce · 23/02/2017 07:35

Newbie here!
Started on Monday and did my second FD yesterday. The batteries in my scales had ran out so finally got around to weighing myself this morning and had the shock of my life! Realistically need to lose 6/7 stone! Can't believe I've let it come to this!

Really hoping I can do it this time. I have to for my DC! It's my birthday this weekend so it's going to be tough sticking to my TDEE but I've going to try my best.

Wish me luck Smile

MummyPigLovesAppleSauce · 23/02/2017 07:37

Waves at Stumble

Hatemylifenow · 23/02/2017 07:40

Should be my weigh in today but period due tomorrow so will wait til it's finished. However I did my measurements and have lost an inch from my waist and 2 inches from my tummy!

TheDowagerCuntess · 23/02/2017 07:42

Thanks BFC - I will try that. I'm not too bothered if it's slow, the beauty of 5:2 for me in the past was that I was really only restricting myself on FDs. Having said that, I don't overeat on NFDs, other than to live a little at the weekend!

I don't have a lot to lose - just 5KG.

TheDowagerCuntess · 23/02/2017 07:42

Hate - that's fabulous!!

sonyaya · 23/02/2017 09:44

Great results everyone! hatemylife measurements are very important and a great indicator of getting slimmer so that's brilliant stuff!

Well done on your FDs mummypig I did Monday and yesterday too. Enjoy your birthday and have a slice of cake - but give yourself an in food treat as well like maybe a nice bath (if childcare allows), or a manicure, or my thing is I'm allowed to use my expensive Rituals shower stuff if I go to the gym but not otherwise! I am very guilty of associating enjoying something with eating and drinking lots and desperately trying to break the habit.

Good luck with your FDs hollow and oldbooks!

I weighed myself today and was 9st10, 2lbs off from last week! I know some of that will be I am lighter because I fasted and bit fat loss but I'm still thrilled as I've had a personal trainer for 10 weeks, massively cut out chocolate/junk/alcohol and only seen a 2lb weight loss in that time which I found demoralising. So this is the motivation I needed! Trying to shift a few excess lbs for wedding in may.

sonyaya · 23/02/2017 09:45

mummypig

Sorry that should say NON food treat

Bilbomum · 23/02/2017 10:12

Hello all, well done on the fasting days everyone. I managed Mon/Tues B2B and trying to have another today if I can. Fell off the wagon last night and had two big glasses of wine (DS was out; DD in bed and the house was blissfully quiet!) but didn't do too badly with food so not beating myself up about it.

Sonya well done on the 2lb loss, they soon add up, I too am guilty of always associated food & drink treats with rewards (hence the vino last night) it's really hard to get out of the habit. I'm reading more books and having more baths and when I'm really struggling on a FD going and trying on clothes I haven't worn for a few years and seeing how close they are to fitting!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/02/2017 12:37

Congrats on your SVs, Hollow, Sonya
Waist NSVs are always great news, Mylife because they mean burned bodyfat exactly where you want to lose it, for health & shape

Sonya Exercise is excellent for health, but for some folk makes surprisingly little difference to weight.
Loss really is 90% dependent on what you eat & drink, for nearly everyone
Women usually can't build more than 1lb muscle per month even when lifting, so it's not really that.
It can be eater retention, but the usual issue is that increased appetite causes increased portion sizes.

Cutting back on junk & booze is an excellent move, but if you find your progress is slower than you expect, I suggest mfp for at least a week, to check you are not eating back the FD deficit.

Mosely recommends when calculating TDEE to use one exercise level below what you think, because almost everyone overestimates exercise

Welcome, Mummypig Smile
I usually suggest when there is a rare soecial occasion, like your own birthday or milestone DP birthday, that you allow yourself to celebrate at least one meal that day, without thinking of 5:2
Try to eat meals and avoid snacks, because they rev up the cravings spiral.
Make the other weekend day sensible

Stumbley Recalculating TDEE after every stone loss is often enough

Good luck on your 16:8 day, oldbooks
and good luck to all the Thursday fasters Smile

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 23/02/2017 12:52

BigChoc thank you so much for all the support and info Smile

NFD today. Had a piece of cake (have friend over) but made it myself and put into MFP so know exactly how many calories & will have a low calorie dinner to make up for it.

OldBooks · 23/02/2017 12:53

Wooo I made it to 12! I suppose the trick now is not to scoff my face and undo the effort of fasting...

Overtiredbackagain · 23/02/2017 13:49

Second FD of the week. I was so hungry this morning but managed to abstain and feel better now. Black coffee and sparkling water for lunch.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 23/02/2017 18:11

2nd fast day of the week for me - am doing a mini fast today and Sunday as we have some family things going on which mean more eating out. My stomach feels a lot less bloated though.

Hatemylifenow · 23/02/2017 18:14

My size 16 pj bottoms are falling down Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 23/02/2017 18:42

Well done on your Trousers Falling Down NSV, MyLife - we always love that one Grin
Now you can choose some snazzy new jim-jams - or just tighten the elastic and wait until you drop another size.

You're doing well, Overtired you just need to stay on track and you've nailed another one.

Sounds a good plan to deal with the social event, boldly

Good for you, oldboots I recommend you avoid junk until you are more used to 16:8
Eat decent meals: protein, masses of veg, boost beans, lengils & peas, full fat plain yoghurt, sensible portions of starchy carbs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/02/2017 18:43

Sorry, oldBOOKS

OP posts: