5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Anyone weighing after Easter: don't get worried if there is a blip.
However indulgent the break, some of the extra will be retained water and undigested food. So a week back on 5:2 would bring you back on track

Hello everyone. Back again like a bad penny. Not caught up on the few threads I've missed and about to take two teenagers out shopping for the day (my idea of hell) but wanted to post to force me to re-comit.

Realised late last year my waist was becoming larger - and had it brought home to me big time after a significant birthday made the gym affordable and I joined a legs bums and abs class for the first time yesterday evening. Have been working on fitness since January, so was mostly able to keep up but being forced to look at my body shape in all its (lack of) glory made me quite upset. Rolls of fat where my waist should be. And I'm classed as within normal BMI (although admittedly on the heavy side of normal).

So back to 5:2. Or I may ease myself in with 6:1. Excuses already.

Two bored teenagers giving me the evil eye, so need to go. Will catch up with you all later.

Sorry for the self-pity moan.

Have a good day all Wednesday fasters.

Welcome back, granny
Choose your FDs, plan the menu in advance ... and you're back in the fasting swing

Thanks BigChoc.

No snacks today so although not a FD, a small victory. Tomorrow will be big test - day trip on train with teenagers and OH has bought a shed load of my favourite snacks - not his fault, I haven't told him I'm going back on 5:2 so he's used to me munching my through a large sharing bag of crisps (on my own ). Fortunately with teenagers they won't last long once opened though and they won't notice I'm not eating them.

Monday first FD proper. Until then, no snacks.

1/2 up for me this week... not really surprised considering the weekend I had... hopefully I'll be able to claw that back next week... could of been worse I guess!
Good luck with the train journey @GrannyGrown .

My Thursday weekly weigh in is here. And no loss this week.

My fast days are usually Thursday and Saturday but last week I did Monday and Wednesday so since weighing last week I've not actually fasted so I'm not to disheartened although I'm eating a lot less than usual so I would of hoped fora small loss. But still I lost just over 6lbs last week and not gained so that's a bonus.

Monthly total loss is 8lbs and I'm happy with that my clothes are not so tight.

I may star doing some excersize soon as my DH has a home gym in the garage. The equipment has been packed away whilst are garden was renovated but it's all set back up now so I have no excuses.

Happy fast day to all who are fasting

sts is excellent over Easter, without FDs, duck
You've maintained your good SV

0.5 lb is just a sneeze, FirstTime that's basically sts over Easter, too

I think you're in no danger in even a sniff at those crisps, granny not with teenagers in close proximity

Hi I'd like to delurk and join this lovely supportive thread. Been fasting for 5 weeks (including 8 days in Italy on holiday) and lost 11 lb so far. Just over another stone to go to reach my target of 10st 10 (my wedding weight 10 years ago). Finding it straightforward so far, and it fits in well with eating dinner with my non dieting family , even on fast days. I've lost weight low carbing before, but it's just so hard maintaining that, especially when the rest of my family are veggies. Thank you BIgChoc for all the useful advice and encouragement. Expecting it to get harder to shift the other pounds (I'm in my 50s) but feel very motivated!

Weighed this morning and am down 2.5lbs from Tuesday morning, which is 1.5 lb loss overall (I'd gained slightly over Easter but figured it would probably be water weight). So that's 5.5 lbs in under 3 weeks even with a Bank Holiday weekend! Plus I feel so much less bloated and more comfortable and more mentally in control of my eating than I ever have before. So, all very good things and I am feeling really positive about having this as a way of life.

I was hungrier than usual on my FD yesterday though as I didn't really eat enough on Weds NFD due to circumstances, but I stayed firm and got through it. I won't do that on a NFD again because I obviously needed the fuel. I have one more full week left for fast days before I'm off on holiday. I'm not going to do fast days on holidays but will be thinking carefully about when I'm hungry and trying to make good choices, then will get right back on it when I'm home. I will be doing A LOT of walking so quietly hoping to maintain.

Have a good weekend any brave ones doing Fri / Sat / Sun fasts!

Welcome Pango and congrats on your SV

Those of us who are post-meno have found how tough it is to manage weight; in my case I was a lifelong exerciser, so it was easy before, then suddenly it was impossible.
Like many others, 5:2 was the only method that worked for me

Well done on your SV, Merri
On holidays, take a break from fasting but try to keep these healthy rules:

• No snacking between meals
• Keep within NHS guidelines for alcohol
• Drink lots of water

Most important: before you leave, decide the date of the first FD after your hols - and stick to it

Glad to hear you are rid of that nasty bug, keepon

Loss due to a stomach bug is partly "fake" loss because you are losing far too much water.
As soon as you recover, your body grabs hold of the water it needs for good health.
Also, your stomach was probably completely empty, whereas normally your stomach has at least some food undergoing digestion (which takes up to 24 hrs)

It is misleading to weigh yourself while you have a stomach bug
You probably weigh less than the day before the bug, but maybe not less than on a particular day during the bug.

Once you have been free of symptoms for a week, I suggest you resume 5:2, but be gentle on yourself:
So, just 2 FDs weekly and concentrate on nutritious NFD food to regain 100% fitness.
Don't try to go below TDEE on NFDs if you are hungry, but try to avoid too much alcohol or junk, because that might stress your stomach

Weight loss is generally a longterm process over several weeks and months.
Very few people gain lots of extra weight suddenly in a month, so it takes time to lose
Relax, be patient and you'll get there

Hi Everyone, I'm back, with my tail between my legs was doing so well up until about February I started back in a new job and slowly my eating habits changed (back to bad form) found it harder to stick to my FDs and gradually returned to the old habits I haven't even weighed in so long but I'm sure all my weight had gone back on so I really need to get a grip and get back to this. I know it works and I actually love this way of eating, I feel so much better when I'm doing fds and have so much more energy I just need a swift talking to, to get me back on track I'm planning on Monday FD and Thursday FD with some walks during the week to get me back on the exercise track- work is busy unpredictable and extremely stressful so I'm going to have to factor my fds in somehow. Well done to everyone your all a great inspiration (especially you bigchoc definitely need some words of wisdom)

Welcome back, whitewinter
Major life changes - new home, job, partner, breakup etc - can return us to bad old habits sometimes.

Well done for taking the first important step, deciding to get back on track.

Suggestions:

• Today, return to good NFD habits:
  no snacking, keep within nhs alcohol guidelines, drink lots of water

• If NFDs are a problem, try mfp for a week or 2 to retrain habits
  Or even just write down everything you eat or drink, right before doing so. Sometimes just seeing the list and having to add to it, can stop major overindulgence.

• FDS: plan and calorie count your menu in advance.
  . Some folk do best with 2 meals; some with saving nearly all cals for supper - whatever works for you.
  . Base meal(s) on protein with lots of veg to fill you up
  . On FDs: No alcohol, junk or sugary treats. Also avoid fruit juice and breakfast cereals.
  . In spring & summer, salads are especially good FD choices (best to dress with lemon or balsamic vinegar rather than oil)
  . Drink lots of water, also black coffee or with unsweetened almond milk, herbal tea with Stevia to sweeten

• If you found 500 cal FDs too tough, you could try our alternate strategy of 3 miniFDs instead or as a transition:
  850-1000 cals on Mon+Wed +Fri, but still with the FD rules of no alcohol, junk, or sugary treats.

• Remember the FD tip to avoid headaches or weakness: glug a teasp of Marmite or tbsp of unsweetened soy sauce (each 10 cals)

Good luck and do post whenever you struggle !

Short of time to exercise ?

I recommend Mosely's Fat Blasts, which just Short of time t
take a few minutes on 3-5 days per week, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

Short of time to exercise ?

I recommend Mosely's Fat Blasts, which just take a few minutes on 3-5 days per week, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

Morning everyone.

2nd fast day completed yesterday.

I'm a bit stumped. I weigh everyday for motivation. Today is my 3rd fast day now where my weight hasn't moved.
I'm under TDEE every day and have not gained but I've also not lost and it's getting a bit disheartening now.

Any ideas how to get the losses going again? I did have a big loss the previous week when I regiggled my fast days about. I plan doing the same this week due to a BBQ and a breakfast out so I will be fasting Monday and Thursday this week.

Duck If you had a big loss one week, you could sts the next.
Some people lose in fits and starts, not linearly.

This may be due to hormonal balance / swings: for some people, after fat is burned, those empty fat cells fill with water.
The body hangs onto this water for a while until it suddenly releases it in a rush.

This effect can happen even with perfect nutrition, but it is more likely to happen if you consume a lot of alcohol and / junky processed / fast food.
So, check if you need to change what you consume, rather than how much

If you are already making sensible choices, then your WOE is ok; you need to relax and be patient.
It's ok to weigh daily, but you'll see every minor water fluctuation, so don't take it seriously.

Good luck today Monday fasters first day on it for me in a very long time (slightly nervous!) thanks Bigchoc for your advice just what I needed to see again. I'm planning tea/coffee/water and almond milk for the day and an omelette with loAds of veg for evening tea. Hopefully it'll go ok. Will check in again tonight

Thanks so much for your reply BCF.

I've made lots of changes and my WOE is really clean now. No junk, no carbs and I very rarely drink.

In a day I normally have Greek yogurt and a banana, a veg home made soup or salad and a tea with meat (usually chicken or turkey) occasionally a nice steak. A small amount of potato and lots of veg.

Completely turned my diet around.

I think that weight I was stuck at seems to be my nemesis as I've checked my weight diary back from last year and got stuck for 3 weeks on very low carb with no cheats.

My body's ready and off as I've lost 1lb this morning and it's come straight of my stomach (hurahh).

The only thing I did differently was replace my coffee with water.

Fast day today to mix it up a bit.

Despite a reminder from BigChoc to organise my food in advance, I forgot. Oops. Off to buy soup now. My brain hasn't re-embraced FD mode yet, so am wearing my tight waisted jeans in an effort to remind myself!

Duck - congratulations on the 1lb and waist loss although I hope coffee isn't really the culprit as apart from water (and wine at the weekend), it's the only thing I drink! My waist (or lack of it) is a big issue for me - I'm not sure how I'd feel about having to give up coffee.

WhiteWinter wishing you and all others on Monday FD an uneventful day. I'm another returner and today is my first FD after many months. We know we can do this!

Hi all,
I'm new to dieting and have been reading your great tips and am on my 2nd FD today.
I've been slim all my life but after having my 4th child 3y ago weight just gained around my tummy/hips area until I became officially overweight. I have lost 7lbs since Feb by just eating healthier but have stayed at my current weigh for the last 4 weeks so decided to try the 5:2
Height 5,6
Current weight 10st 13
Waist 37 1/2 in
Hips 41
My TDEE is 1980kcl which feels a lot! So I've been having 700 on FD and reducing my calories by 200 on NFD. Not sure if this approach will work? My struggle is giving up my glass/bottle of wine on a Friday!!