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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MerricatsHouse · 11/04/2017 15:20

Thanks BigChoc , might switch to the 14:10 on NFD then so I can have a cuppa sometime after dinner. Not having anything except water on FD anyway to save calories!

Same as you duck , always ate the same portions as my DH who is slim and does tons of exercise so his TDEE is about a million 2500 calories. Our portions are OK (as a hangover from former calorie controlled diets), but he would have a snack later on because he needed more calories and I would just do it too as I'd think 'why not'. And on the weekends I'd eat just as much as him when he was being lax. Of course, he could afford the cals and I couldn't Angry . I always knew this in my mind but I am only now accepting that I need to do my own thing to succeed.

My GP mentioned to me once about portion control (wasn't there on a weight related issue but my weight was creeping up every time). She reckoned it was the first place most people are going wrong in their eating as everything is so BIG now.

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/04/2017 19:14

I've fallen off the wagon to the tune of 2 stone. Please help. I hate being fat!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2017 21:26

Your mini-egg treat was fine, borrowed It was an NFD and you were within TDEE

Merricat I recommend against zero-cal FDs. They tend to be unsustainable longterm for most folk.
More importantly, you need at least some protein on FDs, to be sure you retain all your lean muscle mass
So, at least have say a big can of tuna or some scrambled eggs.

slimdog If you feel weak on FDs, that may be due to lost salt & minerals.
So, as for headaches, glug a teasp of Marmite.
Also, make sure you drink plenty of water.
Make sure you eat your full 500 cals on FDs.
If it helps, allow yourself say the extra cals for a boiled egg to top up your fuel tank. It is more important that this WOE be sustainable for you than always staying exactly within 500 cals

Madding Take the first step:
Choose a day to fast and plan your 500 cals in advance, so you don't have to think what to eat.
Have a go !

OP posts:
MerricatsHouse · 11/04/2017 22:13

BigChoc I meant zero calories on drinks on fast days i.e. only water. I'm doing the usual 500 cals of food - no way I could do less! Grin

keeponkeepinon · 11/04/2017 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

borrowedjumper · 12/04/2017 08:44

I'm ignoring this week's weigh in, no change on the scales in spite of definitely averaging under TDEE (been logging everything on MFP for accountability) but I'm pretty certain it's TOTM related water weight holding on and I'll see a decent loss next week or the week after. NFD again today, started with peanut butter on wholemeal toast and could barely finish my second slice! I'll probably just have one next time. My appetite is definitely adjusting again which is good.

keeponkeepinon · 12/04/2017 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 11:22

Yes, ignore scales at totm, borrowed
Almost all women retain a few lb water at totm, due to the hormonal changes.
So long as you resist the totm munchies, then after the FD following totm end, you should lose that water plus your usual 1lb or whatever fat loss.

Well done on your SV, keepon
Are you doing Mosely's 8-week BSD, or is this just for the Easter hols ?

OP posts:
MakeMineADoubleGin · 12/04/2017 15:50

Day 3 for me - Monday was FD and Tues/Weds NDFs.
I know I shouldn't be weighing all the time but -I'm addicted- out of curiosity I hopped on this morning and I'm 3lbs down!
TDEE is 1885 and yesterday I had about 1400. Today I'll be nearer TDEE as I've had a bit of a hot cross bun fest. And looking at my app, TOM is due in a few days so that may explain it!

FD tomorrow.

keepon I am so impressed with your 800 days! How long are you going to do it for?

SlimDogMillionaire · 12/04/2017 16:21

What a difference a day makes, feel so much better. Decided to abandon the FD yesterday but kept it all really healthy and well within my TDEE. FD today seems a breeze in comparison. Sometimes you just have to listen to what your body is telling you and go with it.

nell15 · 12/04/2017 18:06

Hi everyone. My 2nd FD this week and so far good. Trying to keep my fluids up as I've a bit of a headache looming.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 18:39

Glug a teasp Marmite too, nell

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 18:44

oops, if you need to avoid yeast, have some slices of chicken breast, boiled egg etc and be generous with salt

OP posts:
nell15 · 12/04/2017 20:07

Thanks Bigchoc you're a fount of 5:2 knowledge 👍 I've had a big bowl of stir fry veg - leeks, spinach, ginger, chilli, lemon, olives and some smoked sliced salmon with half an avocado on the side - in feeling much better

MerricatsHouse · 13/04/2017 09:10

No movement on weight for me this morning (which is fine because TOTM) but it did tell me that I've lost 0.5% body fat, a number that has fluctuating around and above the same point for ages. So I'm taking that as a sign of things going in the right direction! My face and belly look noticeably slimmer so the bloat is definitely receding.

Now I just have to be good over Easter - have done as much forward planning as possible and ordered food accordingly. Should be able to get out for some long walks as well. Luckily I don't have a sweet tooth so should have no problem avoiding Easter chocolate (here's hoping!).

quckingduck22 · 13/04/2017 10:38

Wow my Thursday weigh in is here.

All I can say is what a difference a week makes after MFP everything I this week have lost just over 6lbs.

So in total now over 3 weeks that's 8.2lbs.

FirstTimeMummy25 · 13/04/2017 10:52

I started 5:2 1 months ago now and just had my weekly weigh in and a 1.5 lb loss this week totalling 13.5lb loss in total so far! This totally fits around my life and allows me to be flexible at the weekend if I bank calories in the week and I love it!

keeponkeepinon · 13/04/2017 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2017 11:18

Congrats on your SVs, Keepon, FirstTime, Duck
and it sounds like you'll have an SV post-totm, Merricat

My advice at festivals like Easter and Christmas is to join in and have one treat per day on those days when everyone else is having them.
So you don't feel deprived any day, but you aren't sabotaging your efforts with multiple junk helpings, or by eating treats on your own later.

OP posts:
nell15 · 13/04/2017 14:31

Yesterday was a FD (no 6) and this morning I feel like I've been hit by a bus - headachey, my eyes are sore and I don't feel myself - what's this about? I've felt similar after quite a few of my FDs - and nauseous too. Not only that, but I seem to have put on 2lb from what I weighed yesterday - how can this be, if I fasted religiously yesterday?

Emison · 13/04/2017 17:23

I've had a rough month with my health but I maintained my weight, no loss and no gain. This week I feel stronger and I've lost 1lb. I'm happy with that!

MakeMineADoubleGin · 13/04/2017 20:29

Anyone else on a FD today? I've had FD2 and fasted until about 3pm, which I was pretty amazed with myself about. So I had all my calories for dinner and enjoyed it so much.

How is everyone else getting on?

MakeMineADoubleGin · 13/04/2017 20:29

Well done on your loss emison and YAY for feeling stronger!

norajane · 13/04/2017 21:02

nell15 I feel grim after a fast day too. This morning I felt hungover, headache and no energy. I had 500 calories (250 morning, 250 evening) and lots of water. No idea why it's happening. I've only been 5:2 for a couple of weeks and maybe I need to get used to it.

nell15 · 13/04/2017 21:30

Hi Norajane I'm glad someone else feels awful too - well I wouldn't wish it on you! It's not pleasant is it. I wonder if it's symptoms of a withdrawal or a lack of something.

I too have 500 - 200 breakfast and 250 dinner and an apple. I drink loads of water.

Maybe someone more experienced than us will come along and enlighten us.