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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
quckingduck22 · 08/04/2017 09:55

That's very interesting BCF. Do you follow the 2 treat days rule?

I have to share as I feel this is a achievement for me. Yesterday was a NFD for me and I lost a pound.

I MFP everything and made a few tweaks so I would fall under TDEE.

I've noticed a trend with me that I've been loosing usually 2lbs on my FD but even without going stupid the next day it goes straight back on. I'm trying to change that.

FD for me today. Good luck to everyone else fasting.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2017 23:21

Duck You add some of the weight back on NFDs, because ntbo your stomach is no longer empty.
Also weight naturally fluctuates a bit, even at maintenance.

If you are weighing daily, you'll see a "zigzag" graph, but the overall trend over 2-3 weeks should be downwards, averaging about 1lb weekly.

Some people lose in fits and starts - those who tend to have hormonal swings and / or water retention, or a lot of social events.

So, be patient, relax and look at the trend over the weeks, rather than trying to understand the daily variations

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2017 09:56

Morning all, gorgeous sunny day here Smile
I'm having an FD. Anyone else ?
I've a lot of chores to do, so the time saved on meal prep is v useful - I have a huge salad for FD supper

OP posts:
nell15 · 10/04/2017 16:08

Hi it's one of my fast days today - I'm finding it easier today - my 5th so far. I've thought about BSD 5:2 option but I'm sticking with the usual 5:2 as I told myself at the start I was going to give myself a month on 5:2 and then review things
I've just had a drink made from miso paste and put some chilli and salt n pepper in - it keeps the hunger at bay - only to read that it has yeast extract in its ingredients - I try to avoid anything with yeast in it as I react by getting thrush, athletes foot etc Does anyone know if all miso pastes have yeast extract in them? If so, is there anything else I could make a hot drink from to stave off the hunger pangs

keeponkeepinon · 10/04/2017 16:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 17:26

keepon Green salad is filling and has v few cals for a big bowl (just have lemon or balsamico vinegar, not an oily / creamy dressing)

Miso contains yeast nell
I have hot bovril (beef, not chicken - because that has things added) 10 cals per cube
Also green or herbal tea (peppermint / aniseed & fenchel / ginger & lemon) with stevia powder to stweten

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 17:27

keepon Hot Bovril / coffee / tea sounds an idea for you, too

OP posts:
nell15 · 10/04/2017 17:55

Thanks Bigchoc oh well, no more miso. I'll put it down to experience 😀 I like the ginger and lemon, not too keen on bovril - but I'll try It. What about veg or chicken oxo cubes as a drink?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 18:45

Chicken oxo may contain a lot more junk - and 30 cals instead of 10 cals on the cubes I tried - didn't like the greasy taste, especially on an FD
Veg oxo - check the label, may have yeast

OP posts:
nell15 · 10/04/2017 19:28

Hi Bigchoc I just checked the veg oxo and Yep, it contains yeast. I'll go back to my marigold yeast free stock at least I know where I am with it. Thanks for your help and patience

Irritationcity · 10/04/2017 20:06

That's really interesting, Keepon

I had a really bad couple of days, ate loads of beige carby/sugary food and today was EXHAUSTED and really cold. Is that why?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 21:28

After sugary, poor quality carbs, or just far too many carbs, you get a sugar spike and then your energy levels plummet.
That tiredness can be an hour or two after you've eaten them, or if you keep eating them all day - unstable blood sugar leading to cravings spiral - you may feel wrecked the next day.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 21:29

nell If you don't like Beef Oxo, try it with a squeeze of tomato puree - a delicious hot cocktal.

OP posts:
keeponkeepinon · 10/04/2017 21:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

quckingduck22 · 10/04/2017 22:21

Today has been a good day for me, a unexpected fast day.

Since doing this for three weeks now I have found my apparight has hugely reduced. I get hungry about 9pm but if I ignore it I can go until at least 1pm the next day without being hungry at all.

Everyone in my house decided at 4pm they were too stuffed from lunch that they didn't want any tea so thought I'd turn it into a fast and save on the washing up.

Still on MFP counting every single cal and keeping myself below TDEE. Found myself not bothering with things like mayo as I can't be bothered to work it out.

We have a planned naughty meal out on Thursday. Can I have a extra FD to try and cancel it out?

keeponkeepinon · 11/04/2017 07:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2017 08:09

Well done on your SV, keepon Some will be bodyfat

FD headaches are caused by losing salt and other minerals. I recommend glugging a teasp of Marmite (knocking it back like medicine) which replenishes them and also boists B vits

Duck Directly after your social event, I suggest a miniFD on Friday: no junk, no booze, cals 800-1000

OP posts:
LadyintheRadiator · 11/04/2017 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MerricatsHouse · 11/04/2017 09:35

3rd FD for me yesterday and felt like I sailed it; because I am eating salad for dinner it feels like plenty and hunger in between seems fleeting and easily warded off with water/ gum (so far). I am shocked at how little I need to eat compared to my previous habits! Did all NFD on the weekend but only ate when I was hungry and this meant I didn't snack at all, and even skipped a meal on Sunday after eggs for breakfast filled me up. It's a revelation for me as I thought I wasn't ever overeating - no wonder I am overweight!

NFD today then back on FD tomorrow. Will be really interested to weigh on Thursday morning to see how a complete week has panned out. One question for BCF - if I am doing 16:8 as well and stopping eating after my dinner, can I still have a drink after that time? I know water is OK, but what about a cup of tea / glass of milk (on a NFD) - does that count as 'eating' outside the time?

quckingduck22 · 11/04/2017 10:21

Merricat - I can totally relate to your post. Exactly how I am feeling.

As I was off plan for a few months I was dredding my very first FD as I build it up in my head to be something it's not. When in reality it's absolutely fine.

I have realized I am overweight as not only am I eating the wrong things my portion sizes are too big. My DH is not doing this diet but I wanted to see out of interest what his TDEE would be. Mine is 1632 and his is 2400 something as he's a 6ft bloke yet when he's home we eat the same and we have the same portions.

Easter this week, and again I'm on a diet, this has been happening since 2010 so 7th year now. Hopefully something may click this time.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2017 11:57

FDs usually go well if you are busy, Lady and today sounds packed !

Merricat For 16:8, the 16 hours should be without calories - doesn't matter whether in food or drink.
So water, black unsugared coffee, tea etc, zero-cal diet drinks if you like them
But no milk or sugar.
If you find 16:8 tough, many women do well on 14:10, i.e. just 14 hours fast

duck Many women make the mistake of eating the same amount as their male OD's, who typivally have much higher TDEE

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2017 13:27

Well done on the no snacking, merricat and learning not to eat when you're not hungry.
Important NSVs for weight management, longterm too

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2017 13:55

You are achieving useful insights, duck
Understanding the causes of your individual weight gain helps not just to reverse it, but to avoid regain.
This time, your insights can make the difference.

OP posts:
borrowedjumper · 11/04/2017 14:20

Hello everyone.

I had hoped to do three FD this week as I'm facing a family easter with no kitchen control and cake pushing in laws but I think it's going to have to just be two and hoping to not do too much damage. I'll probably try to 16:8 whilst we're with the family as at least if I don't have breakfast it will claw back a few calories and at least my in laws don't offer snacks (and I wont go looking) it's meals only.

It's a NFD for me today, I didn't bother with breakfast which made up for the wobble I had faced with mini eggs at lunchtime! It was emotional eating and I know it (just stuff been getting me down) but I had it as part of my meal and counted the calories so I'm not letting myself feel too guilty. Also I enjoyed them at least so it didn't feel as bad as if they'd then not even hit the spot. Even with those I should still end today under TDEE if I stick to my planned dinner (no reason not to, I prepped it all last night so it just needs heating through)

SlimDogMillionaire · 11/04/2017 14:51

I'm back on 5:2 after falling off the wagon for a few months and consequently gaining some weight back. I haven't done too bad since restarting a few weeks ago but this week I'm really struggling especially with it being the school holidays, having to feed other people during the day isn't helping. Lovely as the wonderful weekend weather was it really messed me up, impromptu BBQ and loads of booze followed by boozy lunch in the pub garden the next day.

I feel week as a kitten today and am really struggling. Anyone else feeling this way? I've on holiday next week too so that's going to be difficult too.

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