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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
keeponkeepinon · 17/03/2017 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 20:29

You have a lovely family overtired
Sounds like you've all been having a very tough time Flowers
You've done really well to maintain. You have been so strong

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 20:35

Keepon If you have an ED, then don't do 5:2 (WW is probably best alternative with EDs)

If no ED, then most folk get used to fasting after a couple of weeks.
What really helps on NFDs No snacking, just eat meals
Also, the day after an NFD, aim for nutritious food, no junk

You might find it less of a restriction to aim for 800-1000 cal miniFDs instead, but on 3 days Mon+ Wed + Fri.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 20:56

Happy St Patrick's day especially to any Irish 5:2ers Smile

OP posts:
Overtiredbackagain · 17/03/2017 21:57

Feeling sorry for myself and that's what has to stop. My daughters diagnosis is just one if those things, nobodies fault.

Day with my ladies tomorrow so will be off the rails but then low carb Sunday and then fast days are planned for next three weeks and no alcohol for the same time so am more prepared!

I need to do this for my babies and for me! Xx

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2017 22:17

Go for it, overtired ** Smile

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 17/03/2017 22:23

Overtired beautiful photo, I don't know about your daughter's diagnosis but they are gorgeous children and it sounds as though you have been through a lot Flowers I have a boy and two girls, 11, 9 and 6.

Orcagirl · 18/03/2017 09:43

Hi everyone,
Please can u join you all, I've been doing 5:2 for 3 weeks and lost 4lbs. Really please with this because I've still had plenty on treats along the way and close to a healthy bmi. I'd like to lose another 12lbs.

I did 5:2 4 years ago and was in the best shape of my life, struggled to get back into it but I feel like something in my head has now clicked and the fast days are getting easier. Having said that I fasted yesterday and slept terribly last night.

Happy Saturday to you all x

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2017 09:55

Welcome, orcagirl Smile and well done on your SV
An excellent start when you haven't much to lose

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2017 08:23

Morning all Smile
I've having my usual weekend FD today.
So I'm off to the gym for 90 mins fasted training, then a walk, sauna and iPad.
My pampering day of the week. Bliss

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 19/03/2017 14:57

Enjoy Bigchoc Smile

I didn't manage a second fast this/last week as under the weather/ coldy, I might try 800 tomorrow or tue then either two more 800s or one 500 during the rest of the week.

Good luck tomorrow mon fasters!

Bestbees · 20/03/2017 07:34

Fell off the wagon and picked up half a stone so back!

Fd today. Shashouka prepped in fridge for dinner and stock cube with chilli in my bag for work. Running tonight but not until 7 so will either eat dinner first or split it by having an egg and sone mushrooms with marmite first then eat after. Whats youre advice BigChoc?

Bestbees · 20/03/2017 07:35
Overtiredbackagain · 20/03/2017 08:55

So I have another incentive to stick with this now, my partner proposed!! Grin

Overtiredbackagain · 20/03/2017 09:10

No way I can fast today am way too hungover after wine and celebratory Chinese!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2017 09:42

Congratulations, overtired Grin Flowers

Bestbees I suggest you split the food, since your body probablyneeds time to re-adapt to fasting & fasted training

I hope your cold is gone now, yumyum Make sure you drink lots of water

OP posts:
sonyaya · 20/03/2017 09:45

overtired

Huge congratulations!! A wedding is a great incentive - mines in 10 weeks hence I'm managing to stick to my FDs!

Having a FD today. They're tough, but going well. My issue is although I'm sticking mainly to TDEE on the other days, I'm not making brilliant food choices so I've plateaued. Need to sort it. I'm ravenous on non FDs!

Get well soon yumyum!

Welcome and good luck bestbees!

keeponkeepinon · 20/03/2017 10:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 20/03/2017 11:28

Developed a killer migraine over the weekend so my planned FD well away as only stodgy carbs help with the nausea and trying to skip a meal makes it worse. Still feeling wiped out today. If it follows the usual pattern, I'll be fine again tomorrow.

Having a real wobble about my weight today. Been trying to find some smart trousers for work and thanks to my 'mum tum', nothing fits properly. If it fits around the waist, it's too baggy on the hips and thighs. Anything mid or low rise gives me the most awful muffin top. Just feeling like nothing I do is making a difference. Sad

Good luck to all Monday fasters!

kneesupfatty · 20/03/2017 11:42

Can I join too please? I've lost 13lbs since January, by very loosely doing mfp and running, but, now that I feel I've improved my diet overall and I'm more confident that I won't overeat on the 'eating' days, I've decided to give 5:2 a go. I'd ideally like to lose another 2.5 stones, but don't mind it coming off fairly slowly as I want it to stay off for good! I'm on my first fast day today...

mummabearfoyrbabybears · 20/03/2017 14:57

Bigchoc since I wrote last week about being unable to lose weight I've read your tips and have been much better with my eating. I've lost three pounds in six days Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2017 16:02

Well done on your SV, Mommabear Now you've nailed it !

Welcome, Kneesup Smile
Those healthy habits sound good prep for 5:2 and even more importantly for maintaining after you reach goal weight
Most folk find that "no snacking" also helps on NFDs and for maintenance.
As you are a runner, you might want to also check out the 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3
Lots of info for all kinds of exercise in the OP, also some running calculators at the end of the OP, e.g. to calculate calories burned, or to assess your standard within your age group.

OP posts:
Pimpernella · 20/03/2017 16:54

Hello...I need some help!
I began 5:2 last May and I lost 4 stone. It was easy.
At Christmas I had a few relaxed weeks - I was thin! I didn't really need to lose any more. I did want to lose 3 more pounds to actually weigh in at 4 stone off on my actual weigh in day but the magic had run out - I couldn't do it any more. Then followed a few weeks of disordered eating. I would starve for a few days then binge. I decided I needed to put the scales away.
It's been about 3 weeks since then. I've no idea what I've put on. I don't know how to halt the inevitable slideSad I tell myself every day...just don't eat the crap but my job is stressful and when it gets to the end of the day I just don't care.
I've never been thin before in all my life. My wedding dress doesn't fit no longer because I'm a lot fatter now but because I'm half the person I was...
Why did it suddenly get so hard and will I be able to get back on track? ( my fat clothes are in the loft - good job)Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2017 20:27

Hi Pimpernella You did brilliantly to lose 4 stone
You can get back on track.

Holiday breaks are part of life, but they can often throw people off track, because you go back to the old habits that made you overweight - and then it's difficult to resume 5:2, or resume your maintenance plan.

Note for the future:
I always advise before starting a holiday that you write in your calendar your next FD on the day after the holiday ends. So do that for your next holiday.

What to do now:

  • Take the first step and decide TOMORROW you are back on 5:2, either NFD or FD
  • You know yourself better than we do: whether you need to get out the scales and / or tape measure, to have a starting point to monitor progress. Or whether that would send you more off track
  • If you've junk food & crap in the house, bin it if possible and don't buy any more.

FDs
Choose 2 days this week when you are going to fast
Plan your menu in advance the day befor and stick to it
You know what FD menus & plans worked for you before, so stick to those
NO junk, sugary crap or alcohol on FDs
Don't beat yourself up if your first attempts at FDs are over 500. Do what you can

NFDs

  • No snacking ever, even "healthy" snacks keep blood sugar raised and increase total daily consumption.
  • Start the day with a glass of water and keep drinking - take bottles with you.
  • Roughly plan in advance your meals for the day - and they should be 3 or 4 meals, NOT snacks
  • Base meals on protein, lots of veg,
  • Keep within nhs daily alcohol limits - booze leads to poorer food choices & nibbles, as well as the booze cals themselves

Shake it up
What might help you ease your way in, both to soften the FDs and reduce the number of NFDs is having 3 miniFDs (below 1000 cals)
Mon+ Wed + Fri, so with 4 NFDs

OP posts:
Bestbees · 20/03/2017 20:38

Easy day here.

Egg and 3 mushrooms at 5. Run then shashouka with 2 eggs for dinner. Going to do some yoga then bed. Very pleased! GrinHalo