5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

I was in bed by 9.30 and had a fairly good night, which is usually dependant on my DD

Have a client lunch today so will have to NFD and squeeze in my last FD tomorrow.

Good luck all Friday fasters!

Morning all! overtired I second the early night. I'm always in before 9 on a FD. Hope you managed ok.

Yesterday night was really tough in work. I find sensible eating much more difficult on the later shift. Today I'm 8.30-3.30 so determined to do better.

Good luck any Friday fasters.

Another early nighter! Had a huge headache all day yesterday and came come and went to bed. Still got it today - Need to drink more water!!

Brekkie and dinner yesterday 780 calories in MFP

FD yesterday - was tempted to have choccy bar but didn't- so Big Choc you'd have been proud of me :) was actually really easy to get rid of the thought 'I fancy some chocolate' - hope I can do it more often!

Can def feel and see back roll difference which is when I know I'm losing so that's good!

Hope all Friday fasters finish on strong!

I'm now 4 weeks in. FDs are getting easier and I don't feel hungry at the end of them. Having a one proper meal rather than lots of snacks definately helps me cope as I'm a 'feaster'.

Another 2lbs off this week but more importantly my bmi now sits below 40.

Hello all,
I'm back again ...
have historically done very well on low carb 5:2, but have a habit of falling off the wagon. Before Christmas I was back on track, but sadly fell off but not because of the normal Christmas reasons.

I had a large lump found in my thyroid which we had lots of investigations on and have subsequently had to have half my thyroid removed. Thankfully it was found before it was totally cancer but they found precancerous cells in the biopsy so it's all been hideously stressful and I will admit that I have returned to comfort eating and carbs.
This week I have focused on removing the carbs again and now I'm back to near normal I will start back on FDs next week. But probably 800 calls to start with just because I'm still recovering from the surgery.

The positive though is that my remaining half a thyroid appears to be functioning better than the whole thyroid with a pear sized lump in it was, so hopefully it may be easier to shift a bit of weight ....
Anyway, going to try and catch up on he thread.

Moo glad you are healing up well.

Think I may have lost .5 of a lb this week but I am pretty much where I was this time last week. Think it is prob down to a small amount of going over but doing so every day Need to pay more attention next week.

Well done on choccie minny and sv malmsey

It's my second FD of the week today, I've just had water and tea so far but feeling pretty hungry as I'm really tired and have a headache. I've got a mushroom curry planned for dinner which is really low cal and I'm going to have a chicken salad soon. I would do just one bigger evening meal as I'm sure that's the better option but I'm just too tired to make it through the day without eating something for lunch as well.

Yep, I'm proud of you for resisting the choc, Minny
In fact I'm proud of everyone doing their best and working on healthier habits for life

Minny On FDs, to help avoid headaches ahve a teaspn Marmite from the jar - it replenishes salt & minerals that may run low when you are adapting to fasting, also boosts B vits.

Well done on your SV and no snacking NSV Malmsey
That's brilliant you have dropped into a lower bmi class

Whatever is sustainable for you, borrowed 2 meals is fine
I recommend a teasp Marmite for your headache too
Or a tbsp (because less concentrated) of unsweetened soy sauce

Welcome back, Moo and do take care of yourself after that scary time and illness
I suggest easing in with 800-100 cals next week, just stick to 1-2 FDs
Remember to drink lots of water and get in a jar of Marmite
In the meantime, work on cutting out any snacks between meals, especially the sweet junk.

Eurgh! I've done it again.....a Thursday that ended naughtily and not such a good Friday so far either! Thursday was going really well and then I allowed myself some M+Ms and had too many......
Today, I've had a nice lunch out (but deliberately missed breakfast so I could spare some calories for said lunch) and, if I can have sensible dinner, I might just stay within the calorie limit but I am cross with myself a bit for yesterday's over indulging
So it's the treating myself / snacking late on in the evening that is still my largest downfall albeit I think I might still manage to lose a lb this week if I can keep the rest of today in check and Sat and Sun not OTT!

Am now considering a third FD (or mini FD?) tomorrow to help me stay on target - forcing a third FD on myself in the week might give me incentive not to be so lax about the NFDs next week! Aargh!!!!

I definitely still have some mindset / determination / self-control even (!) issues.....!

Will read over all the successes above again (well done you guys!) and maybe read the inspiration thread for a boost and see tomorrow as another day

Sequins I recommend you plan your treats in advance and only allow them with a meal
no snacking EVER

So, decide at the start of the day at which meal you'll have a treat
Put the selected amount in a pot or bowl then seal up the rest of the packet with brown stickky tape and put it away.
Then later, when you prepare your meal, you can add that treat pot to the table
Train yourself no seconds for treats

I usually have a weekend FD, because it limits weekend damage
So, you won't be alone
I enjoy my FD at the gym, lifting weights, spin class, then pampering myself with sauna and a massage, relaxing treadmill walk with iPad.
I take a shake in a cool bag and have a small meal in the fridge, ready for my return at 6pm

Thanks BigChoc - I will get back into that habit of weighing out the treat element of my day and add it to my evening meal.
It's a hard habit to break I am finding - the lack of evening snacking I mean. I tend to like to eat my dinner with the children, get them to bed and then maybe have a hot drink and a little treat with it when I sit down. Not every evening as mostly I make do with the hot drink - not least as I can tend to go overboard with the ol' M&Ms as you saw! But come Friday evening, I do like a little choc treat. I'm not a wine drinker so it's never that but I do like a little chocolate or something sweet..... It'll be a hard thing to break but I know it'll be the death of my efforts if I let it get out of hand so I do understand that it's better to nip it in the bud.
Feel a little more determined to go easy tomorrow and see if that helps me stay on the straight and narrow until Monday morning's weigh-in. And then, it's a new week!
Thanks for suggestions BigChoc - enjoy your weekend

Morning all. Weekend going ok so far. I had DD' s 4th birthday party yesterday, graded a little on the beige food but barely ate anything all day. Today is a FD and I'm looking forward to it. I fancy something different today - does anyone have any tried and tested FD recipes? I tend to use at least 400cals on one evening meal...

Jumping on as I am interested in IF as it has worked so well for my DH. He only eats between 12 noon and 8 pm and has been doing that for maybe three months? He doesn't overeat during those hours but also allows himself treats. He has lost some weight and kept it off, enough to keep him motivated. He does struggle to 'brrak' the rules for special occasions because he has quite a rule-bound personality (unlike me to my detriment).

I have some nutritional uptake problems so I'm not sure that I could do 5:2 but I'm going to follow for IF and see which elements would work for me. I'm considering whether eating between 10am and 6pm would be practical.

Morning.
My FD yesterday went well, mostly at the gym (away from the fridge all day !)

5:2 is my lifetime WOE, so i've developed a system that suits me
I never snack and I can eyeball the portion sizes I need for FDs and NFD meals, so I no longer need to count cals

Some folk need variation, but I nearly always have the same sort of FD salad meal: it's easy, bulky & filling, I enjoy it and I boost my raw veg intake for the week.

• Hot bovril as starter (instead of soup)
• Salmon or steak with an enormous mixed salad of several different veg, sometimes 3-4 walnuts. No starches, no oil, just balsamic vinegar (I don't care about the few carbs there)
• I added 4 strawberries and a little Greek yoghurt for pud (because I only had a small shake at the gym). Otherwise I'd have had herbal tea, no milk.

Stressful weekend and my fasting has gone badly. Starting again tomorrow!

Welcome, building and well done to your DH
Most women find their male OH's can lose much more quickly & easily, as with any weight loss method. Grrrrh.
You will probably find you need to be more careful about the % of junk

I suggest you try 16:8, but you won't really lose unless you actually eat less food during those 8 hours, so either one meal fewer or smaller portions.
This is where cutting out snacks can help - if you have a " treat" like crisps or sweets, then have it as part of a meal

Review your progress after say 2 weeks.
If you aren't losing, but don't think you could do 500 cal FDs, then you could try an alternative:
800-1000 cals on Mon+Wed+Fri
As with the 500 cal FDs, those 3 "Mini-FDs" should be free of alcohol and any junk like sweets, cake etc.

Never mind, overtired Plan your Monday FD in advance and nail it.
Have a sensible NFD for the rest of today, so you don't start the week with wrecked head / insulin levels.
Drink water now and try to have a reasonably healthy meal, no snacks

FD for me today. Have done Thurs and Sun this week.

One thing I've found so interesting in this WOE is how I generally eat less overall even on NFD. We went for the day yesterday. I'd had some ff Greek yoghurt for breakfast and had lunch out - delicious chicken stew with sweet potato mash. However, I didn't feel hungry at all for the rest of the day! I find that most days I'm fine with 2 meals now.

overtired, I'd originally planned to do a FD on Tuesday but a celebration at work meant that rather delicious homemade cake was on offer! I had a small slice, enjoyed every mouthful and just shifted my FD.

That's excellent about your appetite moderating on NFDs, Boldly
If your body has adapted well to fasting, you may be burning bodyfat for part of your fuel on NFDs too.
Win-win

Iim not sure if I'm going to manage FDs this week. Im still so exhausted and am getting serious Hanger! So this week I'm going to focus on no carbs and no snacks....
I'm finding it so frustrating, I just want to feel better and get on with shifting this weight I've put back on.

Hang in there mootime, I find that if you're not mentally in the "zone" for a FD then it just doesn't happen. Your plan of easing in gently this week sounds sensible to me.

Case in point: yesterday FD. I worked in the morning so that was easy, but had nothing planned for the rest of the day. It was a tough one and I grazed a little bit. Oh well. Probably more like 700cals.

Planning 3 good NFDs now, and my 2nd FD on Thursday. May switch to Wednesday if I'm feeling good.

Good luck Monday fasters.

Confused, was just thinking the same thing! Not feeling mentally read for a FD today and just tried to talk myself out of it!!
Went into MFP and put my calories in for the day, and that's helped! I need to know what I'm eating and looking back at weekend NFDs have let too much food slip in - been out and about and been fed- still eating ALot less than pre 5:2, but I can feel the after effects weekends food today. Just over 2000 calories on Saturday, and 350 calories wasted on 2 almond fingers for NFD brekkie yesterday. tHAT kind of weekend so need to sort myself out this week - maybe add a mini FD over the weekend like BigChoc.

Also wonder if I'm cheating with guessing my portion sizes on MFP?!!