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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2016 21:29

WWW Sorry for delayed reply on the 5:2 / IF ExerciseThread3. I totally missed your question Blush
I've posted tips & photos for plank

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BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2016 21:30

5:2 Exercsie Thread #3 < smacks iPad >

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hollolew2 · 21/11/2016 07:38

Fast day today but I have a work lunch team building thingy so I have phoned ahead and found out the menu and got them to do me a chicken breast everyone else having lasagna ( I'm not keen on lasagna) anyway wish me luck that I don't free base the nuts on the table this morning!!!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2016 08:12

Well done on phoning ahead, HollowLew
Good luck with your FD and good luck to all the other Monday fasters Smile

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Daisiespurple · 21/11/2016 10:51

FD today. Only did one FD last week and a mini FD

Getting better control of NFD and happier eating under my TDEE although I always make sure I eat up to my TDEE a couple of days a week

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2016 11:30

Great progress, Daisies Smile

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Alyosha · 21/11/2016 11:48

Well done Emison! And Fastingrocks for maintenance. I managed to get down to 9st around this time last year, but managed to then pile on a stone in 5 months. Gah.

Quite pleased with the weekend - mindful of BigChoc's advice I kept a lid on my carb cravings on the Saturday and went for an 8 mile walk, very nice!

Kept to my TDEE of 1700 cals.

Sunday was a carbfest but by design.

Fasting Tuesday & Thursday this week, trying for a mini FD today and Wednesday. Will go for a big salad as apparently Sushi has a lot of hidden sugar!

littlem133 · 21/11/2016 18:42

So today's my first day of the 5:2 and I started with a FD, obvs! I ate a banana, clementine and small apple between 10&1pm, a mug of skinny soup at 3pm (117 Cal's) and plan on having 2 boiled eggs with salad for dinner. And I've had 2 black coffees. It's worked out as 525 calories apparently. Should I be cutting out the fruit?

littlem133 · 21/11/2016 19:39

Gutted - my husband ate the eggs today!!

Poppyred85 · 21/11/2016 20:15

Need some encouragement please! Have been doing 5:2 for about 8 weeks and so far lost 3lb with nothing for last 3 weeks Angry. I do about 700 calories a day and last time did this diet it worked really well for me. I don't know why not this time be totally disheartened. I want to lost about 1/2 a stone.

Daisiespurple · 21/11/2016 21:09

Finished FD at 537 calories.

Can you drop your calories Poppy?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2016 23:31

Well done on your FD, Daisy

Welcome, Littlem You've had an eventful 1st FD - your cheeky DH ! Smile
The eggs were a good idea, but before the next FD, explain firmly to DH which food is reserved for you

Fruit on FDs can spike hunger in some folk, especially when eaten on its own without any protein.
I suggest reducing to 1 portion, say an apple, because it has less sugar than a banana.
Replace the fruit with veg, e.g. have a spinach / pepper / mushroom omelette with grilled tomatoes

Poppy Do you mean you are having 2 FDs per week @ 700 cals each ?
If so, your problem is the NFDs - you are probably eating back the FD deficit. Many folk who have been overweight for some time have got used to eating far more than their body burns.

I recommend you mfp for a week, to check - remember to include drinks; also milk & sugar can really mount up if you have a few cups per day.
Your NFDs should roughly be around TDEE - use the TDEE calculator under the "How to start" section of the OP. Mosely recommends you calculate for one activity level lower than you think, because most people significantly over-estimate their exercise.

Alyosha You would probably find it easier to get NFDs under control if you had fewer FDs / miniFDs:
. When you only have 3 NFDs, as you plan this week, it is natural to feel deprived and binge.
. Also, you may subconsciously give yourself "permission" to overdo an NFD, when you are fasting so often. It makes it difficult to get into a proper NFD routine.

I recommend you try regular 5:2, except / until you reach a plateau. If you want to have extra calories for Saturday, you can eat below TDEE on the weekday NFDs.

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Alyosha · 22/11/2016 11:09

BigChoc...you have hit the nail on the head. I really do give myself "permission" to binge after lots of no food FDs...it's hard though because it technically should work better, somehow feel that I'm failing!

I will drop the no eating FDs and see how it works for the next few weeks :D

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2016 11:23

Good luck, Tuesday fasters Smile

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WhiteWinterWitch · 22/11/2016 13:31

Hi everyone first FD of the week for me...had a good sensible weekend keeping within happy weight TDEE and even managed a glass of wine with dinner and a piece of chocolate cake (sorry bread&wine for mentioning the c word! Although your doing fantastic staying off it well done) thanks bigchoc will pop over to the exercise thread and have a read of your info Wink and well done everyone on you svs and nsvs, hi to all newbies welcome...someone was asking about periods being late this happened me last month it was 8 days late so it could possibly be a side effect of fasting or weight loss too can sometimes interrupt my cycle ( it was 4 days early this cycle Hmm) I had a weigh in on Friday morning and had 3lbs off, was really surprised as had a few off the rails nfds last week but managed to keep them under control over the weekend, that's 1 stone and 12lbs since the start of September so I am definitely keeping going this woe/wol is definitely working - happy fasting Tuesday people Smile

Alyosha · 22/11/2016 13:47

Thinking of BigChoc's excellent advice Monday I had a pack of King prawns & two eggs, today I had two eggs and a pack of grapes (probably too much sugar in them to be really good though?). Tomorrow non FD, planning on having a really big Sushi pack for lunch.

WhiteWinter - what fantastic success! Hoping to post something similar in a few months. Well done!!!

Breadandwine · 22/11/2016 14:34

Don't worry about mentioning cake, WWW, I've gone from wanting it, to choosing to have it! There's alway room for cake in a balanced diet! Grin

Did you check out my fierce pirate pic?

EagleRay · 22/11/2016 15:45

whitewinterwitch I'm very envious of your progress! Was muttering to myself that I've lost nothing in that time but have just checked and actually lost 12lb...

Today's FD not going well - was all prepared then last night DD was very very sick not long after bedtime. I spent the night disaster managing with towels and plastic sheets then had to face up to the fact that my own nausea wasn't psychosomatic Sad Luckily DP (who works away) has come home as got a 6mo to look after as well.

In other news, my new exercise regime is going well and my postpartum tummy can now be pulled in in ways I never thought possible. My jeans are loosening too.

I think I mentioned I had some photoshoots last week? It was very stressful but all went well in the end and I didn't look too hefty in the photos just as well as they're going into the public domain

Trying not to feel too disappointed at missing this week's FDs - just grateful I haven't been sick for a few hours!

mootime · 22/11/2016 17:44

Hi. Can I come back and try yet again???
I've been here before (a couple of times) and lost and regained. I'm now 28 days from being 40 and still over weight and if I'm honest, feel massively depressed about it.
I plan on doing a mix of IF and the blood sugar diet.

I'm back up at 12,7 and really want to loose 2 stone. I have got some hurdles as have PCOS and also have just been diagnosed with a Thyroid Goiter which apparently can affect weight but am waiting to have a scan and see a specialist.

I am planning on trying to get back into the 11 stones by my birthday and then we will go on from there.

I feel such an idiot for letting myself slip back again.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2016 18:40

Congrats on your SV, WWW Good progress. Your sensible weekend NFDs would be helping a lot

Alyosha If grapes don't spike FD hunger, then sensible portion size is fine.

Well done on the exercise & fitness, EagleRay That's jeans and photo NSVs

Sorry to hear you & DD are unwell atm.
You remember the routine with a stomach lurgie:
NO Fasting for at least a week after the last symptoms, or the lurgie may retirn.
In the interim ..

TLC for your tum:

  • Drink lots of water.
  • NO tea, coffee, juice, fruit etc until stimach calms down
  • If you feel able, eat a slice of dry toast (German GPs firmly against anythimg else, even soup)
  • Until you are able to resume fasting, no booze or junk. They tend to weaken the immune system.
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BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2016 18:41

Welcome back, Moo
Like enalry all of us, once you reach goal, you need a definite maintenance plan - e.g. 6:1 - plus regualr weighing, to avoid regain.

You might find the BSD version of 5:2 works best for you - iirc, you do better on low carb, but too frequent FDs leads to you over-eating on NFDs.
The BSD version allows some extra foods that tend to help blood sugar control: beans, peas, lentils, plain Greek yoghurt.
The BSD recommends 3 meals for NFDs, no snacks, which further helps insulin metabolism.

I recommend you mfp for a week, to check if your NFDs are roughly around TDEE - this is important both for decent weight loss and to train yourself for maintenance later.

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EagleRay · 22/11/2016 19:50

BigChoc I'm sorry - my body asked politely for a pizza Blush

I'm a bit staggered at my appetite's rapid return as I was so sick during the night.

I also haven't drunk any water today - flippin' disgrace. I'll get some now as my head hurts, which isn't at all surprising

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2016 20:58

Drink Water, Eagle < and hope your body remains polite overnight >

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BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2016 21:00

Even if you feel ok tomorrow, do wait a few days before resuming FDs (and pizza)

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