Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ohidontknowwhattochoose · 20/01/2017 10:02

Took your advice and weighed as usual - another 3lbs off today - woohoo - so that's 6lbs in 2 weeks - great start :) I still not hungry yet so thinking i will hold out to lunch to break my fast (although have had a milky coffee so guess thats broken it)

I drank like a fish yesterday bigchoc so next FD i'll try the marmite thing (although i'll have to hold my nose as i hate the stuff) bleurghhhh

Good luck any friday fasters, i'm looking forward to my treat of a few glasses of wine and some cheese later Wine

MazDazzle · 20/01/2017 11:07

Still chipping away at it here.

I've lost my Xmas gain (woohoo!) and my target is to lose 1 lb next week.

Our holiday is booked for the start of July and all of my pre-pregnancy clothes are packed away waiting for me to shed another stone and a half!

Laniakea · 20/01/2017 11:12

[old timer slinking back in]

I gained 8kg last year - it has to go. Fasting today, I'll do 3:4 for a couple weeks to get off to a decent start. I only weigh once a month - I'd like to lose 3-4kg by this time next month but anything is good!

Cozytoesandtoast00 · 20/01/2017 13:31

Hey Fasters 😊
Weigh in this morning and have lost 4lb in weight and 2 inches off my waist and stomach! Very pleased.
Haven't quite cracked the no sugar thing. Managing on fast days but on NFD's i've been eating it with meals. No Snacking is going well. Onwards and upwards (love that saying!)

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2017 14:15

Lots of great SVs & NSVs today Smile

Well done on your SV, dontknow

And excellent SV & waist NSV, cozy
That's good you keep sugar to NFD meals, no snacks. You are getting it under control.

Well done on your SV, Maz you've zapped the Xmas gain well before the end of January, so you can now head for goal.

Welcome back, Lania
I recommend when you reach goal this time that you move to a definite maintenance pln, such as 6:1

OP posts:
ohidontknowwhattochoose · 20/01/2017 16:15

Aha I just read upthread that I can have soy sauce instead of marmite, phew Grin

Laniakea · 21/01/2017 13:29

Fast day went well :) I've carried on fasting despite gaining weight (too much food/alcohol on NFDs). I enjoy fasting, feel much better when I do (more alert etc) & it absolutely cures my IBS even if I'm eating shite the rest of the time!

NFDs today - Indian for dinner I think, I'll have a chana masala & half a naan bread (don't like rice) & wine. Plan to fast again tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2017 14:58

Delicious NFD menu, Lani [dribble emoticon]

However, if weight gain is continuing even with fasting, then you are one of those who need to look at NFDs: sounds like your "natural eating" on NFDs is high above TDEE
Calories do matter - even if you were maintaining on 5:2, that would mean you were eating about an extra 2000 calories over the 5 NFDs

I recommend you:

  • Calculate TDEE using Mosely's recommendation of one activity level lower than you think (most folk overestimate activity)
  • and mfp for just a week, to check if the issue is portion size, treats / alcohol, hidden calorie bombs This will help see what you can modify
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2017 15:02

Many folk have found fasting is a great help both with inflammatory conditions and with those related to insulin conditions
e.g. IBS, asthma, some skin ailments, PCOS, insulin resistance / preT2
and this has been documented by several doctors actually treating patients, not just in lab tests

OP posts:
Newmanwannabe · 21/01/2017 23:42

Dumb question: I thought waist measurement was around your navel, but I saw upthread Bigchoc it's at the narrowest point? Hips are 18cm below navel?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2017 12:03

There are no dumb questions here, Newman and many folk ask about measuring.:

How to Measure Yourself

Suggested time:

  • Every 4 weeks, the NFD after FD2, first thing in the morning before you have eaten or drunk anything.
  • Good time to weigh, too.

First ntbo, do NOT
. suck anything in
. or clench your buttocks
. or take a deep breath and hold it
. or pull the tape tightly- it's not a corset !

  • Picture shows where to place tape
  • Make sure tape is horizontal around your body - not sloping - for waist or hips

Waist
. women - the narrowest point, above the navel
. men - around the navel

Hips (women only)
. Choose the widest hip measurement.
. This position may be above or below the hip bones.

Neck (if you want to do bodyfat calculation)
. Place the tape at the narrowest point of the neck, sloping slightly down to the front.
. The tape is NOT horizontal for this

OP posts:
Newmanwannabe · 22/01/2017 12:18

Aww thank you. I'm quite excited to take my waist measurement again. I think I might be pleasantly surprised Grin

Roundisashape · 23/01/2017 12:59

I am still here - just about. Last week was a write off with no FD's. Am really struggling with motivation, especially as it is cold. Also I just want to be slim and sylphlike without any of the hard work and discipline Grin.

Tomorrow will be a FD and I'm normally quite good on a Tuesday. But I seem to get stuck on the 2nd one, which will be Thurs. I simply cannot fit it in any other day of the week. It is the second one where I will get to about 3pm and then declare sod it and consume everything in the house. But it is definitely a winter thing, I can sell myself the idea of a salad or something when it's a bit warmer. I feel like I deserve chocolate, potatoes and giant slabs of crusty bread in the winter. But the summer will come and I shall resemble a beached whale (not even a round ball if I continue). I MUST be good.

Apologies for the rambling.

Notreallyhappy · 23/01/2017 15:17

Hi round
Might it be easier to have 3 mini fd?
If you light lunch & low carb dinner keeping under 1000Cals.

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 23/01/2017 15:49

Struggling on a FD here. It's so cold and I'm miserable. Looking forward to tea tonight

Headinthedraw · 23/01/2017 17:10

Hi-can I join?Did this almost 4 years ago and got own to 8st 13lb-my ideal weight.I as a sahm then though and struggled with the fast days.Moody,headachy and not nice to be around.Hoping it will be easier now I'm working and not able to access the fridge so much.First day today.Gone well-managed to not eat the kids cheesy veggie mash.Snacked on a bit of carrot instead.Would have had a plateful normally. Dinner salmon,broccoli and kale.I

Headinthedraw · 23/01/2017 17:47

Hmmmm-just seen how many calories are in a skimed white decaff instant coffee.Drank 4 at work today-80kcals off my 500.What a waste!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2017 19:58

Welcome, head Smile and well done on your 1st FD
tip
If you like white coffee drinks, get the black instant powder and have unsweetened almond milk instead of dairy - under 20 cals for 100 ml, which should do several coffees.

Wheelie On winter FDs, I enjoy hot Bovril (10 cals per cup)
and chant our mantra
"I can have it tomorrow"

Round For winter FD meals, instead of salad, try hot meals, plenty of veg & low-cal protein
e.g. prawn / egg and veg stirfry, curries, stews
FD Recipe links in the "How to start" section of the OP, e.g. BBC Good Food 52<a class="break-all" href="http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/52%20BBC%20Good%20Food%2052%5D%5D%20,%20%5B%5Bthebloodsugardiet.com/recipes-by-diet-type/low-carb/%20Mosely%20LowCarb%5D" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> , Mosely LowCarb , Good2Know<a class="break-all" href="http://www.goodtoknow.co.uk/recipes/538311/5-2-diet-meal-plans-what-to-eat-for-500-calorie-fast-days%20Good2Know%5D%5D%20,%20%5B%5Bwww.52recipes.co.uk/tag/vegetarian/%20Vegetarian%5D" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> , Vegetarian

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2017 20:02

Baked fish & veg is filling & healthy, with a small portion of starchy carbs if you have the cals left.
tip
Avoid mash on FDs - it has higher GI and often higher cal. Have boiled / baked potatoes with skins imstead.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2017 20:05

FD tip
As soon as you've had your last planned FD meal, clean your teeth immediately and use mouthwash - it gives a fresh taste and psychologically really helps avoid temptation to nibble later. Floss too, if you do that

OP posts:
mendandmakedo · 23/01/2017 22:23

Thought I had fallen off the wagon have eaten cake a few times on non fasting days. However weighed on Sunday and lost 4lb in first week Shock very pleased very motivating. BCF brushing straight after eating is ment to be bad for your enamel Headinthedraw sounds like you will get I to the swing of things again quickly. roundis ashape we can do this!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2017 01:17

mend It's ok to eat sensible portions of cake on NFDs. These 5 days you eat your "normal" food. are what makes this WOE sustainable.

I recommend to those who are tempted by late night nibbling on FDs: have a glass of water, then brush teeth.
On an FD, you wouldn't be consuming sugar, so it's an acceptable tradeoff imo on 2 nights per week, if it helps nail the FDs.
Of course, if you have concerns about your teeth, then wait the recommended 20 minutes, then brush - just keep busy and don't eat again in those 20 mins !

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 24/01/2017 01:51

Hi all, can I join your merry gang?

I did 5:2 back in 2013 and got down to an ideal size for me by the end of the year (also my 40th).

I stopped doing it in 2014 when I started running and got too hungry. In that time, I've gone up a dress size, possibly even a bit more.

I struggled to get back into 5:2 last year, but have now started it last week with a vengeance.

Instead of the deficit thinking that was holding me back last year - 'I'm missing out on nice food, 'I'm hungry', 'I'm not enjoying this (FD)', I'm trying to be more positive about FDs.

So - this is a day when weight loss happens, each FD achieved gets me closer to my goal, that feeling of hunger means progress, and besides it's only temporary. It is really working for me.

Roundisashape · 24/01/2017 06:51

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Here we go FD #1 commences. Will look at the recipe section big choc.

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 24/01/2017 10:33

FD here too today and its bloody freezing and all I want is comfort food Envy I'm furiously chanting the 5:2 mantra that I can have it tomorrow

cuntess I like your thinking that the hunger feelings are progress, i'm going to tell myself that also Smile

Good luck to everyone else fasting today