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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Cozytoesandtoast00 · 16/01/2017 18:57

notreallyhappy
That's my aim too, must be about the same weight as you...
I've realised today that if I want to get there i'll need to stop eating sugar. Eek.
Can't eat it in moderation because I turn into the Honey Monster and keep constantly eating it!

mendandmakedo · 16/01/2017 20:41

well I did it 480 calories. wasn't as bad as I thought although I am so hungry. Do you all eat the full amount of calories on the 5 days ie the amount which you should do to maintain? so for me that's 1800. sounds too easy or do the fasting days get harder?

Notreallyhappy · 17/01/2017 07:05

Well done mend I managed 601 & did get through till 6.30 so had a nice dinner.
cozytoes We can do this. 11.3 has been my best weight so 13lb left.any more will be great. As for sugar, show me some toffees...they've now been put away hid(bought by mil for xmas)
All have a good one.x

PersisFord · 17/01/2017 07:23

Morning Tuesday crew

I need some advise - FD yesterday was fine and I will do another on Wednesday. My problem is always this in between day. I'm starving by lunchtime but find as soon as I eat anything I get really sleepy. So I end up not really eating anything til teatime then having a massive dinner and feeling awful. I suspect that carbs are the culprit but what do you guys do?

Clearskies99 · 17/01/2017 07:48

Hi Persis may help making first meal (breakfast) post-FD very low carb and high protein and not too large as it seems to awaken hunger otherwise. And maybe have 2 days between FDs, eg mon and thurs? Good luck!

mendandmakedo · 17/01/2017 09:44

That is totally doable notreallyhappy. I was so hungry this morning already had a biscuit after breakfast which wasnt very healthy. Do you find yourself to be more hungry after a FD? good luck giving up sugar cozytoes it would be worth it.

mendandmakedo · 17/01/2017 09:46

i had a very carb heavy breakfast....then a biscuit Hmm

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 17/01/2017 09:49

morning everyone, first FD of the week, its a busy day so hoping I'll be closer to 500 cals today :) good luck any other tues fasters...

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 11:51

Well done on a good 1st FD, Mend
Yes, you just eat to maintain on the NFDs.
Remember if you have a lot to lose, that you need to review this amount every stone or so, as you get smaller

Persis If you only have 1 NFD between your 2 FDs, I suggest rhat on that day you have breakfast, lunch & dinner.
No need to go low carb (unless you are a regular low carber)

  • just cut out any sugary crab, junk carbs, booze but try to go low GI.
So, boost protein, also add beans / peas / lentils (very filling) and keep starchy carb portions sensible (no more than 100g cooked weight carbs per meal)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 11:55

Breaking your fast late with a huge meal is quite likely to make you feel awful.
Don't go hungry on an NFD - eat breakfast if you wake up hungry and you find that continues.
NO snacks - eat meals, nothing between - better for you and you'll feel more satisfied

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 11:56

I agree with clear that many folk do better keeping 2-3 NFDs between FDs, because having only one between often makes you feel hungier on FD2

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 17/01/2017 12:47

mend
I was hungry this morning so had a boiled egg with granary toast. I could of eaten more but trying to keep to 'normal' portions
I'm going on BCF advice & leave a 2 day gap and have fd #2 on Thursday.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 13:07

Happy Next time, you could try having 2 eggs, if you were still hungry today.
You should feel comfortable on NFDs, i.e. not stuffed, but not really hungry until lunch or supper approaches.

If you fancy a bsicuit or two, that's fine, but it's much better to have this as part of a meal, to avoid snacking

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 13:19

If you are concerned about calories, a boiled egg averages 80 cals, slightly less than even 1 McVities choc digestive biscuit (88 cals) and way below the 310 cals of a Starbucks choc chip cookie.

Eggs ae also cheap, but high quality protein, a "complete" protein source, i.e. contains all 8 essential amino acids. They also have important vitamins & minerals, good for your eyes.
< croaks sings a tuneful hymn to beautiful eggs >

OP posts:
ohidontknowwhattochoose · 17/01/2017 15:37

Argh.... I'm SO hungry today (probably not helped by fact period arrived yesterday!) I'm going to pick up a subway plain chicken salad on way home to have between taking ds to his class and me heading off to choir practice. I just have to walk straight past the 3 bakeries on the way Envy wish me luck!

Cozytoesandtoast00 · 17/01/2017 16:42

Hi Fasters 😊
First fast day of the week today. A lot easier than last week. I usually find the second fast a lot harder though on Thursday. May try and go with the suggestion of having two days in between fasts next week.
Found that an cheese oatcake was really good for giving a boost. (39 cals)
Looking forward to my omlette later!

WhiteWinterWitch · 17/01/2017 18:15

Hello fasters! Happy New (fasting) Year to you all Grin my first FD since the week after Christmas...I started my new job 3 weeks ago so didn't get a chance really to fit in any fds but have now found my feet with my schedule and how I can fit in my FD so first one was today and it was extremely easy (so much easier than being at home) the day flew past and had my dinner waiting to be heated when I got in...back to exercise this week too spin & gym last night and a run planned for this evening, looking forward to getting back to it again now (and only 3lbs on from the Christmas splurge!) hope everyone else is having a good FD - planning on having another FD on Thursday (possibly Friday I'll see) nearly there Tuesday fasters Wink

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 17/01/2017 19:05

So I resisted the bakery 😀 and got my salad... I added a few bits to it but finished at 592 cals... I will get to 500 one day! Hope everyone else has managed okay today 😀

MelanieCheeks · 17/01/2017 19:14

Had a lovely dinner of steamed veg (asparagus, kale, courgette), topped with a poached egg and a pinch of chilli flakes.

Cozytoesandtoast00 · 17/01/2017 20:06

Kitchen closed! Enjoyed my king prawn omlette and an apple. It's amazing how many king prawns you can get for 100 cals!

mendandmakedo · 17/01/2017 20:29

aargh just lost my post. to sum up. well done fasters sound like some yummy meals. I was worried I was going to crave sugar all day. but actually was ok in the end had a couple of chocs and then lunch and dinner. oh I don'tknowwhattochoose you did well resisting the bakery. wish I could eat eggs notreallyhappy I will take the advice on 2 days before Fd again as I think it is very much needed.

rachelreallife · 17/01/2017 20:50

I'm just meal planning now and have decided to get back to 5:2. I've piled the weight on recently. I can't actually weigh myself on account of the battery running out on our scales. I think I will probably have my first FD on Thursday. Last time I did this in 2015 I lost 3 stone and maintained a good weight that I was happy with for a year. Then I stopped bothering. And now I'm unhappy with my weight. I know it's going to be difficult at first again but I'm trying not to think about that too much!

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 17/01/2017 21:19

Thanks mend just in after choir and enjoying a cuppa. Good luck rachel you know it works Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 21:21

Well done, Tuesday fasters and well done too on resisting the bakery, dontknow

Welcome back, WWW 3 lb is nothing over a long break; you did well

Welcome back too, Rachel
If your scales are kaput, then to record your starting point I suggest you measure your waist at the narrowest point, usually a couple of inches above the navel. Also measure hips.

You reached goal befor, then maintained for a year, so you know you can do both.
This time, decide that once you reach goal, you will permanently maintain.

If you return to your old WOE, you'll return to your old waist & weight

==> We all need a maintenance plan for life
2-3 weeks holiday is fine, so long as you jump back in the fasting swing as soon as you return

OP posts:
mendandmakedo · 17/01/2017 22:09

wow Rachel 3 stone is amazing!