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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
CQ · 14/12/2016 23:21

Hi all, interesting read about the blood sugar diet/low carb thing, I may try that in the New Year.

Really pleased with my self control so far in the build up to Christmas. I've had a few nights out & meals but am managing to make healthy choices and keep the booze to a minimum after my belter the other week.

The scales have nudged up a pound or so but I'm not going to panic. When I think of what I COULD have been eating, I know I would have regained every ounce I've lost since October.

Today I got into my size 16 jeans again, first time for about 18 months. Still have an unsightly muffin top, so they're not to be worn in public, but I got them on and done up without having to lie on the bed Grin

FD here today, first for a week. Has been actually very enjoyable, I can almost hear my body thanking me, and I've been full of energy and not consumed with hunger at all. Had a lovely tuna steak with a plateful of green veg for supper, didn't miss the rice at all. And have just watched the teenagers eat toast without a crumb passing my lips.

Better go to bed before something bad happens! Night all. Sending strength among the temptations Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2016 07:14

Morning all Smile
I've an Xmas works do on Friday, so I'm fasting today
Any other Thursday fasters ?

Well done on your jeans NSV, CQ and on your sensible choices.
Yes, feeling hungover wastes a good day, imo.

This is my 3rd 5:2 Christmas and I find that keeping 2 weekly FDs during the festivities gives my body a welcome break and actually increases my enjoyment of the celebrations.
It also keeps me in the fasting WOL, which being post-meno is important - we tend to be hard losers and easy gainers. Quite different to most of the younger ones hee.

OP posts:
Polpette · 15/12/2016 08:13

Congratulations on the promotion Www

My victory this week was managing a FD at home, I normally only fast at work as I'm distracted, fasting at home has always been really hard! Next FD is Friday - find it strange how much I look forward to my FDs.

CQ I know what you mean about hearing your body talking to you, I definitely feel more in sync with what my body needs.

Welcome Oopsdearyme do let us know how your first FD goes.

Enjoy your Christmas party BigChoc.

Monikita · 15/12/2016 09:34

FD here too for exactly the same reasons Bigchoc - Christmas do tomorrow.
Tummy rumbling already and had a black coffee and a litre of water. Time to crack open the rooibos...

Five2ate · 15/12/2016 11:02

FD for me though I have to say I am mightily fucked off following my weigh in this morning. 1 measly kg off in 3 weeks. 3 weeks 😥 I know, I know, it's a step inthe right direction and my overall weight loss in the last 3 months has been brilliant but this still doesn't prevent me from wanting to cry (yes I am premenstral) I did 4:3 last week too and I have logged everyday so I know I am not going over TDEE on non FD. I am also so tired today that I want tonosedive into a vat of chocolate mousse and stay there. This hasn't come at a good time as I have started to struggle a bit with the 'consequences' of all this weight loss (feeling guilty! Who DO I think I am? the positive comments from others, the sheer volume of clothing available to me now so overwhelming Shock but that's a whole other thread. Someone give me a talking too please.

Looking fab eagle and congrats white on your dress victory Grin it's a great feeling.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2016 12:19

Five2ate This isn't a fad crash diet, where you regain massively as soon as you start eating sensibly again.
1kg in 3 weeks is a decent rate, which will soon add up and make a difference to your shape.

The rate of loss varies a lot with the individual - factors that slow things down: being short / middle aged / sedentary / on certain meds.
Also of course if you are already within / near healthy BMI, your body may be very grudging to give up more fat.
However, stick with it and you'll progress at the rate that suits your individual body.

Good news : if totm is coming soon, then you may already be retaining water - sounds like you are experiencing the hormonal / mood swings and cravings already.

So, the next 1-2 weeks are probably a crucial time, when you could
either eat for England and undo a lot of hard work,
OR you stay on track with sensible eating, so that the FD after totm you release the retained water, plus some fat ... and pat yourself on the back.

I suggest you revert to 5:2, because 4:3 increases stress, increases your expectations and you may give yourself permission to binge without limit over Christmas ....

It is possible to add several thousand extra cals per week with continuous feasting, which can mean 1-2 kg each week
So, if you are trying now to compensate for Christmas indulgence, it is better just to keep 5:2 going steadily through the holiday, enjoy the feast days, but don't go mad

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2016 12:21

Well done on nailing your FD at home, Polpette A very useful knack
Good luck to us both today, Monikita and any other Thursday fasters - are you starting today oops ?

OP posts:
Five2ate · 15/12/2016 12:26

Thanks BigChoc you're right, I know you're right!

I will stay strong 💪Grin

WhiteWinterWitch · 15/12/2016 12:37

FD here too, thanks polpette and well done on cracking that FD at home, I'll have to adjust now in the new year to doing them while back at work but I'm hoping that might make them a bit easier. Well done on your NSV CQ it's such a good feeling, really spurs you on to keep going too I think. Enjoy your night out bigchoc Wink

WhiteWinterWitch · 15/12/2016 12:45

Just seen your post five you really are doing great so come on chin up keep it going Wink and I never weigh around TOTM because I know I'll be a lb or 2 up and I also know it's not a true reflection on how your doing with your weight loss - so just pretend you didn't see that figure on your scales and keep on working ahead (and I can completely relate to the whole getting compliments, fitting into nice clothes, it nearly feels like you HAVE to keep this up now it's like holding onto the reins of a horse that will suddenly bolt off on you - but like bigchoc keeps telling us it's a way of life so that's not going to happen your in charge and your doing great Wink) right I'm off to clean this darn house happy fasting Thursday gang Smile

Emison · 15/12/2016 16:57

Another loss this week! I'm now 1 stone and 5lb down. My lowest weight going into Christmas for a long time!

Clearskies99 · 15/12/2016 20:28

Well done eagle you have really changed shape!
great SV Emison
FD at home well done pol
Oops welcome and good luck. You've come to a great place for advice and support
Five allow yourself to enjoy all the good things about losing weight - guilt is such a horrible feeling, no good reason for it

Low carb Mediteranean 5:2 2 week trial adventure update here: day 3 and all going very very well - cravings have vanished, appetite and hunger feel calmer and more settled, no snacking, no starchy carbs, feeling great. Postponing FD2 to saturday as fits better with my hectic week and want a good few low carb NFDs under my belt first. Cautiously optimistic this might be my route out of recent stuckness,.
here's hoping....

Have a good friday everyone, may not have time to check in tomorrow

MazDazzle · 15/12/2016 20:46

Wow Emison! Well done. That's really something. You must be so proud of yourself!

Successful FD here. Haven't eaten anything yet and went to a HIIT class tonight.

For the last six weeks I've managed 2 FD & 2 work outs every week. I think I can now confidently say that I'm back in the zone! Grin My baby will be 9 months on NY day and I can also confidently say that the old saying 'nine months to gain it, nine months to lose it' will definitely not be true in my case! I have a lo-ooooo-ong way to go, but I'll get there.

Targets for me are to get in another couple of workouts a week and get my NFDs under control.

Last week I lost 1lb and the week before I lost half a pound. We shall see what tomorrow brings! I'm approaching my totm too, so don't expect results to be great, but if not they'll pick up next week

Emison · 15/12/2016 21:20

Thanks everyone Smile

WhiteWinterWitch · 15/12/2016 21:45

FD done 507 cals and did a 60 minute spin class this evening, exhausted now, but good exhausted, so I'm off to bed now good luck Friday fasters, don't be getting too drunk on your night out Grin

WhiteWinterWitch · 15/12/2016 21:48

Sorry forgot to say bigchoc Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2016 22:31

Well done on your SV, Emison 19 lb down now, brilliant.

Good for you, clear
I know Low carb Med was quite a change for you to accept, but you have made a great start. As intended, it has zapped your carb cravings and is getting you back on the 5:2 track.
A good idea to move your FD to the weekend and get used to LC NFDs.

Do use your full 800 cals on the BSD FDs - don't try to do 500 cals. Mosely deliberately gives the extra allowance, because 5:2 BSD works a little differently to standard 5:2

Well done on your SV, Maz and on your return to the full fasting swing

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2016 22:33

Don't worry, WWW I've never been even tipsy in my life < I'm quite odd !)
I just dislike the taste after 3 sips, so I average 0.5 units wine per month.
I probably won't drink alcohol at all this Christmas & New Year - with lovely feasts, I'd much rather have water, to enjoy the full flavour of the food.

OP posts:
WhiteWinterWitch · 16/12/2016 08:08

Morning fasters, just a quick update, had a weigh in this morning and 2lbs off so since starting this woe in September 2 and a half stone lost in total Smile one stone to go to happy weight - extremely delighted Wink
Thanks bigchoc for all your advice and help, and taking the time to post great posts that will help and benefit us all Flowers
Have a good weekend fasters

MazDazzle · 16/12/2016 09:17

2 and a half stone since September? Shock Wowsers!

I've maintained this week, but I'm pleased with that. It means that I've definitely not putting back on what I've lost so far. Hoping for 1lb next week.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2016 14:05

Great milestone and SV, WWW You must be delighted at what you've achieved so far.
Onwards to Hapoy Weight Smile

A maintenance week after losses is quite common, Mazz
Stay patient, focus on NFDs and the overall trend over the weeks should resume downwards

OP posts:
WhiteWinterWitch · 17/12/2016 10:51

ThanksMaz and bigchoc hope the Christmas party went well Wink nfd here, out for dinner this evening so had breakfast and won't eat until we're out for dinner later on, feeling slightly dehydrated this morning so going to try and get a few litres of water into me today- will be back for FD on Monday Smile

TalkinPeace · 17/12/2016 13:37

As one of the old timers on these threads (this is my 4th 5:2 Christmas)
I can heartily recommend fasting in the festive season
it makes a huge difference to the bloat blur
and it saves money ......
make the kids eat leftovers while you sip water and everybody wins

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2016 18:27

Great advice, tip and you've beaten me - this is only my 3rd 5:2 Christmas Smile
< tip was in the very first group of 5:2ers, who started these threads >

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 17/12/2016 18:34

And for those who have the original Michael Moseley book and can identify my typing style, you can work out my real name from the quotes from early adopters ;-)
Me, Laska, Anglaise, Catsrus, Breadandwine, Americas - we're all in there Grin