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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
EagleRay · 07/12/2016 10:24

I'm so cross with myself - totally overdid the exercise on Monday as both kids were in nursery so Felt I should take the opportunity. I walked 20,000 steps and did a c25k run plus an arms/abs workout. FD yesterday was tough as felt very achey and depleted. I thought it was just soreness from exercise but then got a sore throats and my temp was up in the night (and was up every 2 hours in the night thanks to wakeful baby)

I've also been going round in circles a bit losing and regaining the same kilo for a while. I've come so far but think I plateaued around this weight last time.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2016 12:37

Have a couple of TLC days, with plenty of water & nutritious food, EagleRay Lots of nasty winter bugs around atm.

Until you feel 100% again, if you want to exercise then choose strength workouts, not cardio - the latter can stress your immune system if it is recovering from / fighting an illness.

re losing & regaining the same few lb:
That typically happens when you have lost the "easier" weight without being too strict.
This may also be your "set point", the minimum weight you have had for some years. If so, homeostasis may cause your body to resist losing more fat. Especially if you are still BFing.

To progress further, you need to be stricter about the NFDs:

  • average around TDEE
  • cut back on sugary junk & alcohol
  • check sensible portions for starchy carbs,
  • No snacks between meals
  • mfp for a week for a reality check on total calories, carbs, sugar
OP posts:
MazDazzle · 08/12/2016 08:16

Weigh day today and I'm down another 1lb! Grin

Almost at my first stone!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2016 08:25

Well done on your SV, Maz Nearly your stone milestone !

OP posts:
LadyCatherinesshades · 08/12/2016 09:03

Well done maz
Checking in for my 2nd FD of the week. Good luck everyone fasting today

Clearskies99 · 08/12/2016 09:37

FD here too.
Have a good day everyone Smile

Tryingno1 · 08/12/2016 09:41

Hey guys
Can I ask on nfd how many grams or percentage carbs should I eat?
Well done to the losers!

Emison · 08/12/2016 18:11

Another 1lb down taking my total to 18.5lbs Smile

Polpette · 08/12/2016 18:45

2lbs down for me this week.

I'm almost at my first stone mark too Maz - although I'm nervous I'll get to the stone mark and reward myself by eating more, although I guess the fact I'm thinking about it means that I won't (not sure any of that makes sense?!).

18lbs is amazing Emison - well done.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2016 20:36

TryingNo1 No need to go low carb unless you prefer to, or if you are preT2 / insulin-resistant.
As with all weight loss programs:

  • try to minimise added sugar, sugary carbs and junk savoury carbs like pizza, crisps, deepfried food.
  • try to keep within nhs alcohol limits.

Sensible portion size is to keep starchy carbs per meal to about 100g cooked weight total (e.g. 100g pasta, but only 50g cooked pasta with 50g bread)

It helps to check your NFDs over the week roughly average within TDEE, so you retain the FD deficit. Don't worry about your macros.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2016 20:43

Congrats on your SVs, Emison, Polpette Great progress
Stay focused and stay losing Smile

I hope your FDs went well, Clear, LadyC If supper's finished, drink water and clean your teeth, to help avoid temptation.

OP posts:
Emison · 08/12/2016 21:27

Thanks Polpette and BigChocFrenzy Grin

Monikita · 09/12/2016 11:47

Checking in for my FD today. Coffee and water so far. Will probably have a sachet of miso and a sprinkle of seeds about 3pm. Tea tonight is smoked haddock baked with cherry tomatoes, steamed spinach, cabbage and mange tout. Konjac noodles for me and pearl barley for the girls.
Just went to see DD1's first nativity! She's in nursery so spent most of it with her fingers in her mouth Xmas Confused. Looked extremely cute as an angel though Xmas Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2016 17:00

Good luck Monikita and anyone else fasting today

OP posts:
Five2ate · 09/12/2016 17:05

So ready for my dinner. Am doing 4:3 this week and next as a Christmas pre cursor. On FD number 3, going to hang on for another hour though. Perhaps watching Xmas Food channels this afternoon was not a good idea. Anyone else doing 4:3 in the run up?

Looking forward to the weekend, out for brunch and will be having my first mince.

Monikita · 09/12/2016 19:15

Thanks Bigchoc and good luck Five2ate . You have my respect - I've never managed 4:3!
FD today really hard - ended up having some roasted soya beans on my journey home but on target by skipping my Yoghurt. Enjoying a Cocoa now but still hungry! All your amazing losses keeping me going Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2016 23:15

Well done, Monikita, Five2ate
Enjoy your weekend, everyone Smile

OP posts:
Clearskies99 · 10/12/2016 12:16

Well done everyone who's doing so well maz emison pol* and others I've missed - I look forward to getting back to effortless losing at some point soon I hope.... in the meantime, had a better week overall, several carby blips but amazingly weight down 1lb. Still really struggling at times with overwhelming carb hunger kicking in, when it hits it is SOOOO powerful. Am upping vigorous exercise in HIIT format which I'm hoping will help, upping veg and beans and NOT GIVING UP! The body set point thing is a powerful beast! The excess weight I have still to lose has been around much longer so really have my work cut out for me

Have a good weekend everyone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2016 15:08

Are you low carbing now, clear ?
That's the best method to get carb cravings under control, but it can sometimes take a few weeks for them to disappear. After this, many folk can gradually build up healthy carbs again, just not to the orevious levels that caused the problem.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2016 15:12

Any added sugar ? That would spike cravings if you are very insulin-resistant.
Maybe other triggers to avoid too, e.g. bread for many folk - try baking with almond flour.

Also, how many portions of fruit are you eating ?
In your case, best to keep to 1-2 per day and exclude dried fruit and fruit juice

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2016 15:15

You are doing really well to keep going. Stay focused and you should find you are back in your old fasting fat-burning swing

OP posts:
Tryingno1 · 10/12/2016 18:16

Hey guys
Non fast days going well until today! For lunch I had the worlds largest piece of carrot cake! Felt exhastued and sluggish after I won't be doing that again!
Well done for doing 4/3 fivetoate that's amazing
And amazing weight losses people :)
I'm also at weight I tend to stall, it getsso so hard now. I have to watch everything I eat and drink and it still hardly moves Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2016 19:45

The average 5;2 weight loss longterm is 1lb,Trying
However, if you've lost a chunk of weight and reached your usual set point, this could be a plateau.

You can stay focused, stay patient and wait it out;
Or try 5:2 Bootcamp for a couple of weeks to break through (basically that's cutting out all snacks, booze & sugar, mfp to TDEE on NFDs)

OP posts:
Polpette · 10/12/2016 22:41

Keep on not giving up Clearskies - 1lb down is 1lb in the right direction. It's hard to stay focused when things are tough and progress is slow but you're really digging in - I have a lot of admiration for you. Hopefully Bigchoc's advice on kicking the carb cravings works for you.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/12/2016 06:57

Morning all.
FD today. Anyone else ?

OP posts: