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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2016 12:25

Also, if you usually have a problem eating too much carby food, then do NOT binge on sweet crap over Xmas:
one sugary binge leads to a binge the next day .... 2 weeks of that can send things spiralling out of control for months.

OP posts:
WhiteWinterWitch · 02/12/2016 13:28

Thanks for your kind words five & bigchoc I think I needed to do the spin class just to burn off the stress and anxiety from all the worry and just to clear my head, it definitely helped - thanks bigchoc for that guide to getting through the festive season, that's a great help. eagel I am so impressed that your doing 5:2 and have a small baby at home, do be gentle with yourself too though Wink

Great to have your good company today five will join you in that Brew Grin right lots of lovely housework from my two day absence to see me through this FD, best get cracking!

Alyosha · 02/12/2016 14:12

WWW glad your DD is better, sounds very traumatic!

Great advice BigChoc. I'm prepping for Xmas by attempting to avoid all sweet stuff apart from our weekly work Bake Off...

It's hard though - especially as it's the season of sweet treats :)

Five2ate · 02/12/2016 16:29

Ok I'll start the ball rolling.

I do solemnly declare ✋ that my first FD after the holidays will be Monday 4th January.

Monikita · 02/12/2016 17:08

Hello, intermittent de-lurker as well as faster here Grin. I'very been following everyone's amazing progress here (I know, I'm like a weird stalker) and have been inspired to post my good Christmas intentions!
Working until 23rd so aiming to keep up at least one fd in the week after Christmas day, unless I stay at the in-laws, in which case 16:8 for all days I'm there will be more feasible.
Won't be able to get to the gym but will carry on with 2 x strength + hiit cardio sessions (they'll just have to be bodyweight instead of free weights) and my yoga. Can now do a shoulder stand! Grin Will be 18 months of this WOL now.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2016 17:50

Should be a very effective Xmas plan, Monikita and good to meet another longterm 5:2er
Very well done on the shoulderstand too

I expect Monday 4th Jan to be the most popular 1st FD for 2017, Five2ate
So, it'll be a monster fasting gang with a huge roll call Smile

OP posts:
WhiteWinterWitch · 02/12/2016 17:58

FD nearly done kitchen is closing at 500 Cals bang on! Lots of cleaning done too Grin hey monikita wow I'm well impressed with your shoulder standShock will look forward to hearing any tips on fasting and exercise too Wink another one for the 4th January roll call so I'll pledge now ✋🏻too - have a good weekend fellow fasters Smile

WhiteWinterWitch · 02/12/2016 18:00

Oh bigchoc I've posted a question on the exercise thread (about side planking) if you get a chance thanks Smile

Difford · 02/12/2016 18:26

Evening all.
I've been reading through various 5:2 threads on here and I'm so impressed with how many of you have totally changed your lives around and managed to keep it up long-term. After my second fd yesterday I am still amazed at how simple it is and I really hope this becomes my new WOL from now on.
I had a really awful day at work today but didn't resort to raiding the biscuit tin like I normally would - that is a huge NSV for me Smile

Polpette · 02/12/2016 18:37

WWW so glad all is ok now. Scary stuff.** Flowers

Great to hear you've drawn the battle lines Clearskies, keep chipping away, you'll get back to where you need to be, but more importantly you won't slide the wrong way. And you're right about Christmas, achievable is the way forward.

So with achievable in mind I'm going to listen to you Bigchoc and I'm going to scrap my 4:3 plan, as I fear I fall into the 'giving myself permission to go a bit OTT' category.

Emison your plan sounds like a good one. Enjoy the G&Ts.

My first post-Christmas FD will be Thursday 29th Dec (cheating slightly as I'll be stuck in a car all day).

Oh and before I forget, another 1lb down this week!

Polpette · 02/12/2016 18:43

Excellent NSV Difford. Keep up the great work and don't overeat this weekend (that's more of a message to myself!! Weekends are my weakness).

Tryingno1 · 02/12/2016 18:53

Hey guys can I join?
Bmi 24.8 and want it closer to 23.5

I get quite hangry when I'm hungry so hoping I can have some moral support to not go for the mince pies when I'm irritable!

Emison · 02/12/2016 18:53

Thank you Polpette, I will Smile

Tryingno1 · 02/12/2016 18:55

Ps will fast 28th Dec after Xmas!

LadyCatherinesshades · 02/12/2016 19:25

It's Hanukkah in our house that means 8 days of latkes (deep fried potatoe pancakes), sufganiot (jam doughnuts) and chocolate money.

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 02/12/2016 22:04

Lost you all for a while. So glad to have found this thread. First weigh in for a while tomorrow. I have kept it up bar a ten day period when I was really unwell. I was wondering what Christmas strategy to take.., planning last FD on wed 21 dec and will do one on 30th. And then the 2nd onwards ... Hopefully that will mean not too much gain

gardengirl88 · 03/12/2016 08:03

Thanks for the holidaying tips, bcf. My family are big on lovely breakfasts so I've had to adjust my usual 16:8 around to not be a total Scrooge. Main take away points: NO SNACKING! No snacking no snacking. None.

It helps that we are having our fanily Christmas celebrations spread out over Dec weekends so I can continue with my usual PT hiit and lifting sessions and regular 5:2...I am another who a) would give myself permission to binge and b) cannot cope with a little sweet binge...id be straight down that slippery slope faster than you can say "Yule log".

Besides, my babies in hyper excited family frenzy time means not that much sleep so more black coffee and less food. Every cloud!

gardengirl88 · 03/12/2016 08:04

And ps ladycatherine Hanukkah sounds lush. I could definitely get involved with latkes!!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2016 09:11

I'm fasting today. You too, Olive ?

I answered your question on the exercise thread, WWW

Congrats on your SV, Polpette Good progress

That's a great biscuit tin NSV, Difford Smile
Enjoy your weekend, but stay focused on eating until you are no longer full, but not stuffed.
That would complete a really good week.

Welcome, TryingNo1 Smile
For FDs, it's best to plan your meal(s) in advance the day before, concentrating on protein & veg.

Avoid more than 1 portion fruit on FDs and definitely don't have any sugary treat like mince pies.

If you suspect you might need some backup food on the first couple of FDs, then prepare some protein (not starchy carbs) the day before and keep it in a sealed tub.
e.g. store hardboiled eggs or slices of chicken / smoked salmon with some sliced carrot / pepper / cucumber

That's good you can squeeze in a late December FD, Polpette, TryingNo1
It breaks up the Xmas - New Year feasting.

Good luck Clear Boost protein & veg, cut starchy carbs to avoid those cravings.

GardenGirl You can also do 16:8 by skipping supper (although socially that may not be feasible with family)

Your Hannukah menu sounds delic, LadyC

OP posts:
EagleRay · 03/12/2016 11:51

Quick update... I might have had a failed 2nd FD but this week I managed to kick the 25th lb to the kerb!!!

Another 20 to go, I reckon. And progress has felt slow at times but 25lb is a big difference in terms of health and appearance.

Mini FD today as had pizza last night. Happy FD to all the others!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2016 12:04

Sounds like you're in the swing, WheelieBin
I posted Xmas Tactics yesterday at 13:20

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2016 12:09

Congrats on your SV, EagleRay a very encouraging milestone for you
FDs are not "failed" - you just move on and try to nail the next one Smile
For most folk, this WOE works provided they stay reasonably on track most of the time.

OP posts:
Tryingno1 · 03/12/2016 13:13

Thanks for the welcome bigchoc and love the name ;)

I'm planning fast day no 1 on Monday ! Thinking 3 small meals to help my hunger...very protein veg and egg white focussed!

Can I ask how much people loose after the first 2 weeks which I presume is the most rapid weight loss?

Breadandwine · 03/12/2016 14:20

I haven't fasted all week, so it's today or nothing. But I'll end it with a low-cal pizza and a pint!

470cals for a pizza made with 100g of flour ain't bad! Grin

I get quite hangry when I'm hungry

That was absolutely me, Trying, four years ago, prior to 5:2 - but it didn't didn't take long before that feeling disappeared and now I'm completely zen about food. If there's none available I just put myself 'in the zone' and I'm fine! Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2016 18:07

TryingNo1 The loss in the first 2 weeks varies tremendously depending on the individual.
Those who are very overweight can lose several lb - the record was a stone ! -
Someone already within healthy BMI, trying to trim the last 5 lb to be ripped, would probably only lose a lb or so.
Someone who binged on a few NFDs, lots of sweet crap, lots of booze, might not lose anything at all - because they will have eaten back the weekly FD calorie deficit.

What has the most effect is not whether you go a little over the 500 cals on FDs, while you are getting used to fasting, but whether your NFDs are sensible.

If you naturally eat around TDEE, or not much over, you should do very well.
If your "natural" eating is well over TDEE, then the weight loss phase is your opportunity to train yourself to eat what your body burns. This is important later for maintenance.

OP posts:
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