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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
WhiteWinterWitch · 24/11/2016 13:24

Hi folks, 2nd FD of the week here, I'm struggling a bit with it, think because it's so cold (-4 here at the minute) couldn't get out for my regular walk this morning the pavements are very slippery, so I headed to the gym and did a run on the threadmill, if I hadn't I wouldn't be having a FD! Excellent news on the jeans Lady & Cecile I hate jean shopping too, actually hate shopping full stop! Much prefer book shopping 😄I love reading about nsvs & svs, gives me the inspiration to keep at it when I just feel like burrowing my face into a plate of scones.
so dinner is an omelette (hopefully this one will make it to the plate!) and a nice big salad, lunch was a homemade cappuccino (coffee with frothed up almond milk!) good luck to anyone else fasting today too

Alyosha · 24/11/2016 14:12

Well done for staying on the wagon WWW! It is so hard to avoid baking tasty scones, brownies at home in the weather. Glad it's not -4 here though!

Five2ate · 24/11/2016 16:17

Step away from the scones whitewitch

I too have a SV to report, another kg off and finally after I don't know how many years I am in the 10s (stones not dress size), only just but I'm thrilled.

This woe really does work and I'm happy to carry on in the run up to Christmas (nervous about weight gain but I will make sure I read all the advice on here and take it)

All my FDs done now, good luck to everyone for the rest of the week.

mootime · 24/11/2016 16:30

Some really great SV's and well done all for sticking with it. Yesterday was about 800 cals which isn't bad for a BSD fast day. Today is an NFD but still low carb. Had left over stew for lunch and making fish stew for supper. Need to just stay off the booze!

I'm going to try for a FD tomorrow. I'm out and about all day which will make it easier. I then have a day out with my mum on Saturday which is meant to be a treat so normally would be V high cal. But I've warned her, so plan on having a nice low carb lunch out without booze and just doing more shopping !

WhiteWinterWitch · 24/11/2016 17:58

FD done 515 Cals, kitchen is closed, have to put to a meeting now at 6, an hours drive to and back it's still -4 and we now have freezing fog Angry so the thought of driving has definitely taken my mind off food!! Well done fiveto fantastic to be coming down the numbers, great stuff👍Thankfully the scones were all in my head and I didn't venture near the shops just in case Grin there's always tomorrow. Enjoy your weekend shopping moo thanks Alysha I think I've read on here before of 5:2ers getting pregnant unexpectedly while doing this WOE so fingers crossed for you bigchoc is the best person with that advice - right I'm off to brave the elements have a good weekend fasters Smile

LadyCatherinesshades · 24/11/2016 19:57

Kitchen closed at 530 today.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2016 21:28

Congrats on your SV, Five2 ate and welcome to the 10 stone somethings
That's a very satisfying milestone for you to enjoy and pat yourself on the back. Stay focused and you can look forward to the 9 stone somethings.

Well done on your FDs, LadyC, WWW, Alyosha, Five2 and all the Thursday fasting gang

Moo I recommend that you - and everyone else Smile - try to stay within nhs alcohol guidelines.
Next to giving up smoking, learning to drink in moderation is the #2 thing you can do for your longterm health, not just weight management.

Alyosha If you want to ttc in 2 years, then now is a great time to aim for your desired weight range. Fasting also improves insulin metabolism and hence related conditions like PCOS, which may have reduced fertility. This is why the 5:2 stork has occasionally popped in unexpectedly.

Once you are ttc, you don't want too much stress on your system, because this can affect fertility. So, that's not the time for a tough WOL like 4:3, or training for a triathlon or half-marathon.
Ideally at ttc, you want to be at stable goal weight, maintaining by eating within TDEE or with 1-2 weekly mini-FDs (700-1000 cals)

OP posts:
Polpette · 25/11/2016 06:17

Some great results from everyone!

Clover I weigh myself the day after by second FD, and the odd sneaky time in between just to check and see - but sometimes this can be depressing so I need to learn to stick to once a week and measure my waist instead.

My good news this week is that I seem to have broken my plateau and my loss was 2lbs.

Odd to think that back in the dark distant days of Weight Watchers I'd have hated myself for such a 'small' loss whereas now I feel great that I'm plodding along in the right direction and galvanised to keep going.

Good luck to any Friday fasters.

LadyCatherinesshades · 25/11/2016 08:18

Another lb down this morning Grin that's 2.5stone overall I'm starting to look forward to DH's works do it's on the 23rd December I should be able to wear a proper non-tent dress this year

WhiteWinterWitch · 25/11/2016 08:36

Fantastic polpette & ladyC bring on the sparkling dresses now for Christmas party season Grin I'd say your delighted to break that plateau Polpette I'm going to add to the party - I weighed this morning and have another 2lbs off that's 2 stone now since September, very happy at how it's coming off. And a NSV from meeting last night there was lots of goodies on offer and I resisted all it was a FD and poo crumbs were my mantra Grin good luck today Friday fasters

Five2ate · 25/11/2016 09:21

Well done whitewitch we are 5:2 twins as I am also 2 stone off since September. It's remarkable isn't it?

Congrats polpette it must be SO good to break a plateau Flowers

WhiteWinterWitch · 25/11/2016 10:05

Thanks fiveto I think we are 5:2 twins, I've just entered the realm of 10 stone something (just making it in there!) now too!!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2016 11:09

Wow, wonderful to hear these 2 and 2.5 stone SVs and milestones
Well done WWW, LadyC, Five2

Great news that you persisted and broke through the plateau, polpette
Well done too for changing your mindset.
This WOE is longterm, not a temporary fix where you soon regain .... and pay again to lose ... and regain ....

Keep mindful on NFDs, everyone and you can shift a few more lb before the Christmas party round.
If you start to struggle, it can help to visualise your party glad rags.
Also having a better choice of clothes all year round, when you don't feel you want to hide yourself (you shouldn't at any size, but sadly many do)

OP posts:
Alyosha · 25/11/2016 11:37

Thanks for the TTC reassurance BigChoc & WW. Very inspired by the SVs of Polpette & LadyC. Great to see plateau breaking! After following BigChoc's advice I am now 1lb down this week, at 9st 13lb, nice to be back in the 9s!!!

Five2 & LadyC your SVs are really inspiration and help to keep me in the zone! It's so great to hear other people's success, buoys you up when all I want to do is fall head first into a 150g Kettle Chip bag...

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2016 11:54

Well done on your SV, Alyosha and the milestone of the 9 stone somethings. Now you see what works for you.
No snacking is really important both for weight lsos and for longterm weight management
You could try a sensible - i.e. small - packet of crisps as part of a meal , e.g. with sandwich, soup and an apple. However, do buy just one packet and only the small size, or that probably won't end well.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2016 09:05

Morning all Smile
I'm having an FD today. Anyone else ? Olive ?

OP posts:
WhiteWinterWitch · 26/11/2016 15:26

Nfd for me, spin class this morning for breakfast, looked like I had fallen into a swimming pool by the end of it!! Going to a party later so the will power will be tested, think I'll drive to avoid the vino and nibbles that naturally come with drinking. Well done Aly on your sv your heading in the right direction Wink good luck with your FD bigchoc after doing them for so long now do you find them like second nature???

Polpette · 27/11/2016 02:52

Really impressed with your loss Five and WWW - I started in September too but haven't lost nearly what you have. Not that it's a competition obviously!

Thanks for the words of encouragement bigchoc and everyone else, it really does help.

I'm mightily impressed with anyone fasting over the weekend - good luck to you all.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2016 11:36

WWW FDs in maintenance are much easier, because there is no weekly calorie deficit, so less hunger.
Also, the FDs can be more relaxed - I allow 500-800 cals and keep FDs low carb and most NFDs low-medium carb.

I usually have an FD at the weekend, because when I was in the weight loss phase I found my weekends were sabotaging weight loss - I was eating back the weekly FD deficit, which is quite easy during an "unrestricted" weekend for a greedy guts like me who loves choc donuts Grin
I only really cracked this when I switched one FD to the weekend.

I also found this gave me valuable extra time that was very useful to get weekly chores done, plus still enjoy gym and Kindle.
So it's a useful habit which I've retained.

OP posts:
mootime · 27/11/2016 12:57

Hi all,
Will try and catch up properly when I get back. Managing to be good at my parents. Friday was a 700 cal FD (which is OK on the BSD) then yesterday I managed to stay low carb and today we are just having a roast lunch so I can just skip the carbs.
I'm also staying totally booze free to keep some self control and avoid wasted calories.
This is probably the first time I've ever been to my parents and not over eaten.

CQ · 27/11/2016 14:03

Hi all, I had a FD yesterday but too busy to check in. Took new baby pony for a walk to have a snort at all her new surroundings, and had the strength to hold on to her when she spooked at something, so the FD's are definitely becoming more of a routine and less tiring.

Since I refused to cook, the rest of the family had takeaway. Imagine my shining halo as I had a bowl of soup while they ate pizza and curry. My calories were about 400 so I allowed myself two mouthfuls of chicken dansak and rice. Tasted like pure heaven!

Gloomy dank day here, so roast pork in the oven with lots of lovely salty crackling Grin but a low carb day to counterbalance.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2016 15:00

On this cold dreary Sunday - after morning spin & weights - lunch was delic hot chilli with mac n' cheese. A very warm, comforting speciality of a local restaurant.

Well done, Moo and that's a good "staying with parents" NSV

Well done on your FD too, CQ Your new baby equine sounds so cute Envy

OP posts:
Emison · 27/11/2016 16:54

Another loss this week of 1.5lbs, bringing my total to 17lbs. Slow but steady I think you could call it Smile All I know is that I'm very happy!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2016 21:22

Well done on your SV, Emison Not slow at all and it's mounting up Smile

OP posts:
Emison · 27/11/2016 22:29

Thank you BigChoc! Apart from one week, I've either lost or maintained and that is a huge thing for me. I'm so used to gaining weight on my medication that I actually feel that I've made a breakthrough Smile