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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2016 19:25

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
sparkle789 · 21/08/2016 10:35

Nfd today,
Breakfast was natural yog and blueberries.
I'm out for lunch but will try and be sensible and then prob soup for tea.

Trytowin · 21/08/2016 11:16

Another 0.5 kg lost 😁 roll on 12 o clock!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2016 13:16

Welcome Trytowin and good start with your SV
Smile
It's ok to weigh daily, but be aware that weight can naturally vary a couple of lb from day to day (digestion, water retention, hormonal swings etc)

I recommend that you record your weight on the same morning each week and monitor the trend over a few weeks.
For those on 5:2, we recommend the morning after FD2; for 16:8 choose say Friday morning.

Whatever your WOE, "no snacking"
Eat meals, with at least 4 hours between.
Scientific research, see the links at the bottom of the OP, has shown that for those tending to overweight or preT2, it is better for health & weight management to eat less often.
Snacking keeps insulin levels permanently raised, usually hinders fat-burning, increases hunger and the total calories consumed.

Well done on your 1st FD, Sparkle An early night is always good on an FD, to pamper yourself

Good luck on your FD, BestBees
Sunday is my usual FD too - I spend most of it at the gym, with lots of lifting, massage, Kindle, walks outside.

OP posts:
Trytowin · 21/08/2016 13:53

Hi BigChocFrenzy

I weigh myself everyday same time before work and keeping to the same ish time at the weekend.

I find it helpful to see it working so it keeps me going til 12 😀

Definitely finding it much easier so far.

2.8 kg down in total so far!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2016 14:11

Stripey Bad skin is often due to anti-nutrients: sugar, other junk carbs, alcohol, cigs.

However, sometimes it is insufficient nutrients due to prolonged restricted intake
Some who turn to 5:2 or 16:8 after months of WW / low carb / low fat etc may already have vitamin / mineral / macronutrient deficiencies.
Hence symptoms like poor skin / hair, cravings / binges, too tired to exercise regularly.

Healthy 5:2

  • Eat protein & masses of veg on FDs (not meal substitutes like shakes. Zero FD booze or junk)
  • Eat sedentary TDEE on most NFDs, with full TDEE at least one day weekly.
  • Base NFD meals around protein, veg, complex carbs. If you are low carbing, do Mosely's LC , which daily adds plenty of beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt & kefir - high nutrient and proven to help insulin /weight management.
  • Cut out all snacks, so you can have better meals
  • Keep NFD alcohol & treats to sensible amounts, e.g. have only on 2 NFDs per week, single portions.
OP posts:
stripeyzebra32 · 21/08/2016 14:53

BCF thanks, I fear I've lost my way a bit. I'm just meal planning now for the NFD. FD I have no issues with.

NFD I'm not eating enough good proper foods so how does this sound?

Breakfast: Berrys, banana and Greek yoghurt.

After workout protein shake 135cals

Lunch: veg soup (supermarket bought not canned but fresh 1 of your 5 a day kind)with wholemeal roll
Or 3 egg omelette with ham mushroom and a bit of cheese.

Dinner: meat veg and new pots / wholemeal rice / pasta.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2016 18:34

I'd suggest for lunch:
. Make that a veggy omelette, e.g. with spinach, peppers, tomato - 3 eggs already has 20g protein, so if you want ham or cheese, make that 2 eggs.
. Another day, have veg soup with ploughman's sandwich or toasted cheese panini
. A 3rd option: salmon / crayfish, with avocado, tomato & watercress salad

Then you'll have 3 good meals Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2016 18:36

If you like curry or tagine, either goes very well with vegetable couscous

OP posts:
Bestbees · 21/08/2016 19:13

Hmm well I had a good day with nothing but a stock cube. Had a sensible stir fry then ate a pain au raisin! Husband had been on a pastry course so could resist! Buggered it up a bit but focusing on positive of a decent fast length and ate it all together as a meal so not a snack! Plan to skip breakfast tomorrow to balence it out. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2016 19:19

That sounds a decent return to FDs, BestBees
Remember next FD to chant our mantra: "I can have it tomorrow" (e.g. for breakfast)

OP posts:
Emison · 21/08/2016 23:30

Another FD done! I'm sitting here thinking why did I not try this way of eating sooner! TBH I think I thought it would be too difficult but it really is so straight forward Smile

Bestbees · 22/08/2016 06:33

2lb down this morning! Grin

Bestbees · 22/08/2016 06:33

2lb down this morning!

fastingrocks · 22/08/2016 07:18

Just checking in to say the 5:2 threads are fabulous, because everyone is supportive of each other and understands that different things work for different people. Thank you all Flowers.

I've had a great SV today, I usually weigh in on Sundays but couldn't as I wasn't at home. Over the last week I've been away for a couple of days, dinners out with friends etc, but I'm still down 1lb this morning from my last weigh in 8 days ago. I'm very happy with that, and my NSV of sticking to 16:8 and avoiding the delicious smelling hotel breakfasts by going for a walk.

BCF - your maintenance ideas for 16:8 are definitely food for thought, and once the kids are back to school I'll think more about adding 1 FD into my 16:8 diet to make sure I maintain once I reach my goal, rather than gaining back.

I'm away again this weekend, I will stay strong!

Keep going everyone, you are all an inspiration.

Bettersleepoutdoors · 22/08/2016 07:24

Hi. I would like to join please. I have read the book and followed your brilliant thread for a while.
Shocking weight of 11st 1lb 2oz (I am 5' 4")
I'll never get to my lowest adult weight of 7st 11lb but would like to aim for 8st 7lb.
Perils: excessive wine drinking, comfort eating, blaming 2 dcs for lack of time for exercise and it being tough to avoid food Blush
Mood quite low but reckon I can start today with a FD.

Overtiredbackagain · 22/08/2016 08:03

First FD today and I'm sitting on the train and my stomach is grumbling already! Shock mind over matter, I can do this!!

Bettersleepoutdoors · 22/08/2016 08:10

Yes you can overtired
I was having a similar thought, first fd, making toast and porridge for the dcs. Famished alrady. I have had a glass of water and will have a black coffee then crack on with laundry

Overtiredbackagain · 22/08/2016 08:18

Better, sounds like a fun day! Grin I know once I get into it I'll be ok, it's just getting back into the WOE.

I'll grab a nice large black coffee and a pint of water on my desk (and spend the day running for the loo!) Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2016 09:04

Morning all and good luck to the Monday fasting gang Smile
Congrats on your SV, BestBees, FastingRocks

Welcome, BetterSleep Smile and good luck on your 1st FD
Fasting gives you more time on a busy day - amazing how much laundry you can do Wink
Post whenever you need support or advice. Great to see you are already being supportive to others Smile

Welcome back, OverTired
You know you've fasted successfully before. So just climb back on the fasting horse & ignore the bucking.
Remember, after the first week or so under your belt, it gets much easier.

Well done on your FD, Emison
Sounds like you have found your WOL and you're now on your way to goal.

OP posts:
CeciledeVolanges · 22/08/2016 09:18

Morning all and happy Monday!

I'm going to try a fast day today: Greek yoghurt for late breakfast, miso soup for lunch and a mushroom omelette to finish off the day. Great to read about all the SVs and NSVs for some inspiration :) good luck everyone else fasting today.

CeciledeVolanges · 22/08/2016 09:19

Bettersleep isn't 7st11lb quite low? Did you feel OK and were you healthy at that weight?

jingscrivvens · 22/08/2016 10:44

Glad to be on a FD today, ate too much yesterday - slightly over TDEE because of a huge nasi gorang for tea. Should've eaten half of it but knew it would go to waste so stuck it in my tummy instead. Grr at myself, should've just stuck it in the bin.
Really tired this morning prob part due to overeating last night and the wee man in bed with us.
Time to stop grumbling and have a cup of herbal tea!

Good luck to all fasters and non-fasters today Smile

stripeyzebra32 · 22/08/2016 10:48

New start for me today. Food should be delivered soon.

I thought about my food choices this week just gone and we had BBQ 3 times this week just consisting in meat. I had 2 treat days of sugary carbs and 2 fast days so no wonder why my skin looks terrible. I will be honest I don't think I've had a portion of veg this week.

I've become lazy and complacent since ordering tonnes of meal replacement products for fast days and have been taking at least 1 per day as they are nice tasting and super easy.

I'm going to do some googling for new ideas as I haven't got a clue about good foods I know slimming world, low carb and bad habits.

annielostit · 22/08/2016 11:09

Hi all, a few nice new ppl, good luck in your 5:2 journey.
FDs over the past week have been OK, but nfd are shite.
Too much white carb (iced lemon buns) & wine. I'm with jing & stripey, today, bad habits no sleep & over indulged.Blush
Have a good FD Monday gang, we can do this.

Bettersleepoutdoors · 22/08/2016 11:54

Cecile yes, I think 7 11 was low. I felt good (I think) but it was hard to maintain and definitely more so when I quit smoking.
I don't feel the need to be that thin again. But it was fun Grin

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