5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Bettersleep that's interesting. I've read some interesting things about falling rates of smoking being responsible to some extent for rising rates of obesity.

Bettersleep that's interesting. I've read some interesting things about falling rates of smoking being responsible to some extent for rising rates of obesity.

Signing back in after a few weeks off on hokiday ans various other festivities. I suspect I may have gained a couple of pounds but am afraid to pop on the scales. Instead i am going to spend this week preparing myself to get back into fasting mode. I have recharged my Fitbit and am back to tracking woth MFP. Today So I am also back to 12:8 and planning a couple of 1,000 cal days before restarting 5:2 next week when kids are back to school.

Bettersleep that's interesting. I've read some interesting things about falling rates of smoking being responsible to some extent for rising rates of obesity.

I don't know Cecilie but it was all part of feeding my face with a cigarette rather than food. So, if I was hungry I would smoke instead.
It was deliberate and obviously harmful.
The trouble is nicotine cravings can feel a bit like hunger so unless you have the ability and desire to smoke whenever any sort of "desire" hits then it's ridiculously stressful. I know many overweight smokers.

Made it to lunchtime with just a milky-ish coffee and lots of water. feeling ok and surprising not hungry although thinking about food but mainly what to prepare for dinner tonight. I only eat at dinner on FD.

Overtired I find the thoughts by far the most troublesome aspect of this, they really bother me.

Let's try to really boost your daily veg, Stripey You'll feel much better
wrt sugary junk: I suggest you don't have "treat days" , but instead allow yourself one single treat on 2 days per week, as your pud after the main meal.
On the other days, try to have fruit & plain yoghurt for pud

You would be replacing most of those sugary treats with healthy starchy carbs, especially beans, peas & lentils - Mosely strongly recommends these for general health and stabilising insulin levels (so do I).
For your main NFD meal, add moderate (80g dry weight) of quinoa / brown or red rice / wholemeal bread.

In the "Useful Resources & Calculators" section near the top of the OP, I link to several sites for FD recipes, eatng out etc. Also a meal planner for any day.

For FDs, most folk have curry / stirfry / stew / salad
On FDs and NFDs, just make sure that veg covers at least half of the plate, so each meal has at least a couple of veg sides. So long as you don't dollop creamy / oily sauce on top, just eat as much non-starchy veg as you can.

Also, you seem to eat a huge amount of meat. I suggest replacing this with fish on say 3 days per week.
Fish might well help your skin, too.

Sugar, nicotine, drugs
In recent research, sugar has been shown to

"repeatedly elevate dopamine levels which control the brain’s reward and pleasure [centers] in a way that is similar to many drugs of abuse including tobacco, cocaine and morphine”

"Since nicotine and sugar wear down the same receptors, they both respond to the same drug"

Simple version
Geeky science version

Thanks BCF.

Points noted. I meal planned 1 portion of fish this week but yes that does sound good.

I stocked up on veggies. I use frozen and put them in all my stews, spag Bol, sheppard pies. Bought carrot and swede to mix in with the mash for my sheppard pies and also bought wholemeal pasta, rice and rolls.

I've done better today, ate my 1st meal earlier at 11 instead of 1/2. I know I eat too late but I changed to later 1st meal low carbing to drop cals and it's been hard to stop myself doing that. Felt more active earlier so will keep doing that.

thanks BCF. So much to take in.
I believe I was sub 500 today.
a couple of bites of cold roast chicken, 2 small plain yogurts (75cals each)
tea with milk x1
half a meatball.
I might just go to bed now.
will try to eat healthy food tomorrow.

Well done on your FD, bettersleep
An early night is always good, to pamper yourself on FDs

Sounds like you're gradually getting on track with meals, stripey
Don't beat yourself up - you are NOT alone in having to learn about meal planning. Probably several,others here too
It's a national / Western problem:

The popular eating culture since about 1980 has moved towards continual snacking, fast food and junk food: industrially mass-produced "food-like substances," instead of real food with minimally processed ingredients.

The knowledge of how to make tasty nutritious meals used to be passed automatically down the generations.
Sadly however, this generational link has been broken: many folk now have been brought up by parents who themselves didn't know how to eat properly, who were maybe serial / yoyo dieters or just preferred beige convenience food.

Anyway, don't worry. We all share and learn from each other here
There are many good cooks on these threads, like clear, Talkinpeace, who can tell us their favourite easy mealplans

btw, I'm at the absolute laziest end of the spectrum here :
Typical = baked / fried fish, with several portions of different coloured veg or a big mixed salad, plus mushy peas / wholemeal bread / couscous / quinoa

I'm so glad I'm not trying to quit smoking now (did it 20 years ago)

FDs brought forward by a day this week as not practical on usual day of Thursday. Kitchen closed at 900 cals and I've managed 15,000 steps, all with a pushchair, some with hills.

I added smoked tofu to my usual egg salad today (having a little break from my fritattas). I had some nice bread at the weekend and found it interesting that I now see bread as a great rather than a daily staple.

I also got DP to do some mugshot photos of me in a bikini. Was quite surprised to see how wide I was around the rear end, but not overly upset as I feel I have the matter in hand now. It's a world of difference to seeing fat pics and knowing that tomorrow you will overeat again .

Dying for an early night but toddler only just asleep and baby conked out at 11pm! Something in the air tonight.

A friend told me today I was looking great (haven't seen her since I restarted 5:2)

Sorry for dull one-sided post - typing in a hurry on phone. Hope everyone doing ok so far this week

Congrats on the compliments NSV, Eagle and well done on an active FD.
You did really well giving up those horrid cigs so long ago - the best gift for your body.

Thanks for the compliment BCF but tho I cook from scratch, Mediterannean -ish, like you it's pretty basic stuff (but also cheap and yummy too!) - eg for later today I have just spent 2 mins tipping 2 tins of kidney beans, 1 tin tomatoes, 2 chopped onions and carrots and assorted greens from garden in a pan on low heat with pepper, a little chilli and a bay leaf to simmer before work for me and DH and will eat with a little brown rice and flax oil plus a big green salad.

Great SVs try best fasting

Welcome newcomers and returners -stick with it, if you have a blip, get straight back to it, post here for support and encouragement and you can do it! {smile]

Good luck better my mood is LOADS better since starting 5:2 and eating way more healthily - hope same goes for you

Great your husband gets 5:2 now stripey. Watched the Horizon doc with mine at weekend and he is interested for the health benefits ( no weight loss need for him, lucky man!)

Have a good day everyone

I had a good first FD yesterday, finishing the day at 528, having had tender pork loin snd salad, with a small bowl of strawberries. I enjoyed every mouthful and took care to savoured every flavour, rather than shovelling it as fast as possible in case DC3 woke up!

FD again today, I was to fast three times this week so get into the habit. Definitely feel good.

Hello. FD3 complete. Snacking down to 50%. This is huge for me. Am focusing on 'meals'. Very difficult as have been a snacker most of my like. Tracking on MFP about 80% of what I eat. Again huge. So big question is how do you all break your fast. Also I am at a birthday dinner tonight so what is best low calorie filling breakfast that doesn't include eggs. I am thinking porridge or protein shake?

I don't really like eggs and don't want to starve myself till dinner at 5 after a FD. I think this would encourage me to binge. And I want this to be a long term eating plan.

Personally Glass if I was coming off a FD and out for dinner tonight, I would not eat until tonight? I'm never hungry day after fasting.

That sounds a delicious FD menu, overtired and you are absolutely right about chewing food properly to gain maximum enjoyment.

Eat like a gourmet, not a labrador

GlassHalf The day after an FD, since you are still getting used to fasting, I suggest you have a good breakfast and a light lunch.
Concentrate on no snacks today
Suggestions:

B: porridge (not instant) with almond milk and mix a spoon of pnut butter in. Delicious.
Or have pnut butter / ham / cheese on toast.
Or pancakes filled with Greek yoghurt & berries

L: salad with balsamic or lemon and tuna / salmon / chicken breast

EagleRay I quit smoking 9 years ago and BCF is right, it was the best gift to my body. I still feel happy about being a non smoker.

The NFD tips are great, thank you BCF
Just had a reasonably low sugar oat based muesli.
I need to go shopping though, so I make sure there's plenty of veg around or I quickly move to 'emergency meal mode' to feed the family and that's not good for anyone. I have promised the DCs a picnic today so that might prove a little tricky in terms of keeping it super light for me.
Feel very good after the FD I must say.

Glasshalf That is quite an achievement to have halved your snacking.

GlassHalf I like overnight oats with peanut butter on my day after FD, it really is yum!

Eagle well done on taking mug shots, its a really brave thing to do and will really show you how much you are changing body shape.

FD2 today and I am hungry again! This isn't usual for me on FDs, think it is a hormonal thing so am just going to drink drink drink water until lunchtime