5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Not doing too bad here considering my boozy over indulgence last weekend. I have managed 2 FD this week but to be honest this was moreto do with feeling under the weather than determination. Soup was just about all I fancied. NFD have been soup but with some carby and sugary food thrown in as 'comfort' food I suppose. I did manage to stick to TDEE though so not beating myself up about it. Hopefully I will be back on track properly next week.

I agree about FD on a weekend, impossible for me but well doneto those of you who manage it.

Any tips or advice from you experienced fasters. I'm starting Monday in the hope of losing 10lbs. I'm two weeks post hip surgery so can't easily exercise, or walk. I've put this weight on quite quickly due to being sedentary and feeling sorry for myself and eating crap. So is 10lb off doable by Christmas?

Just reading back on this thread. You are all doing so well. Just the inspiration I needed.

Hi BC

I've had a query from a friend re fitness calculators and their accuracy. I've seen that you regularly post that they over-estimate the cals used up in exercise - my friend would like to know if there has been any research on this? Or is this just from your own experience?

Hi acorns

Exercise only accounts for about 20% of weight loss - so it's 80% down to the diet. A loss of 1lb/week - perfectly doable on this WOE - would just about give you that 10lbs you're looking to lose. Good luck - and welcome to the threads.

And welcome to all the new posters on here - you've certainly come to the right place!

Welcome, Phedre, acorns

acorns As B&W said, 10 lb is a very doable target before Christmas and you don't need to exercise for that.
Even for a strenuous exerciser, exercise is at least 80% diet (e.g. some people who train for marathons actually gain weight if they don't watch diet - because steady state cardio can increase appetite a lot)

Phedre A few people have upset stomachs the first couple of fasts, but the problem normally disappears once your body gets used to fasting

What helps avoid this :

• Drink lots of water on the FD especially, also on the NFD after
• Avoid fruit juice on the FD and keep fruit to maximum of one portion. You may need to avoid spicy FD meals until you are more used to fasting
• When you break your fast on the NFD, do so gently - with a small meal and avoid anything very spicy or acidic, e.g. avoid fruit juice, vinegar that day, at least for the first 2 meals
• A sudden large amount of food into a previously empty tum may cause "dumping". So, also keep NFD1 lunch and supper moderate, avoiding sweet / junk and especially alcohol - it irritates the stomach. Also avoid very rich or oily foods on NFD1 - e.g. cream, ice cream, very fatty meat - until you are used to fasting.

Ho hum, I'm fasting tomorrow - and olive is another 5:2er who likes weekend fasts.
This WOL suits all sorts of us weird & wonderful folk
I do spin + then a weights session on my own. I enjoy a few relaxing hrs at the gym on a weekend FD.

acorns Lots of tips in the "How to Start" section of the OP, with useful links below to FD recipes and calculators to play with.

What usually helps most:

• NO snacking / grazing. Even on "healthy" food. Just eat meals. If you want a treat or alcohol on NFDs, have it with your meal, e.g. as your pud. Not on its own
• NO booze or junk on FDs
• Keep within nhs alcohol guidelines on NFDs.
• Drink plenty of water especially on FDs, but on NFDs too. Start each day with a glass and continue.
• Keep NFDs sensible. It's fine to have a treat, but do include nutritious foods, for longterm healthy habits

Hello it's me Olive with a name change. Still trying to fast and still stressing we have our Ofsted inspection at work on 31st Oct, the head has handed in his notice and the deputy and head of eyfs both went on the sick within 3 days of the ofsted phone call. We have all changed year groups this year and changed our maths curriculum so trying to build up our resources etc and as a result have been more or less living in school (with a staff room full of chocolate and cake) have had 8pm finishes, we were in all day yesterday and will be in most of next week too.

My children have been packed off to grandparents for half term as DH is expecting to be in court for the next few weeks (he's a barrister).
On the plus side I have lost 3lb since I last checked in.

Well, I think I might have undone all my good work yesterday! On Friday evening I went out for cocktails (a very rare occurrence - booze is not a huge weakness). Yesterday I was very hungover and ate ... everything.

Today I'm holding out till lunch to start eating (am a few hours behind UK) and will try to do better.

My bingey tendencies are what scuppered my efforts last time round. :(

Good morning, everyone
Who is in the Monday fasting gang today ?

That's a heck of a lot going on, LadyCath Especially your school manangement running away.
Re staffroom temptation, chant one of our mantras:

Communal food has communal POO crumbs & snot

Booze (Monday morning )

One of the (many) problems with excess alcohol is that it can both set off the Mad Munchies and destroy your willpower to resist them.
Alcohol also stops your body from burning fat until your liver has processed all the booze toxins - it has to prioritise that - and switches your body to fat storage around the middle.

The tolerance for booze and also sugary junk is very individual, but learning to enjoy these in moderation is a vital key to longterm maintenance and healthy habits.

Silent Many folk find NFDs can sabotage their weight loss, especially weekend NFDs.
This is because quite a lot of folk now have gained weight not because of a little extra each day, but because their "normal" eating - which is what we do on NFDs - far exceeds what their body can burn.

In 5:2, I always recommend regarding the NFDs as how we should eat & drink longterm, with the weight loss phase being our training time for this.
I suggest you use Mosely's TDEE Calc to get an idea of where your NFDs should be, say for a week or so, especially at the weekend, since that seems your danger time.
Also, use the Calc Daily UnitsCalories checker (in the OP)

Even just note on your phone what you eat & drink - sometimes just seeing how the day's list is growing, even without knowing the calories, makes you pause.
When you check back the next day, it can help you realise what may be a cravings trigger and to identify any calorie bombs.

Fasting today. Unfortunately it feels like I'm just trying to undo the damage I did at the weekend.
I had a wonderful time but a g&t and two large glasses of prosecco lead to some fairly unrestrained picking at the buffet. 😳

Urgh poo crumbs

That 'nugget' of information is going to come in very handy over the festive period especially in the knowledge that old uncle Cedric may not have been so thorough with his hand washing after a few glasses of port.

FD here. Am over whatever vague illness I had last week so feeling positive.

Crepe after reading that I think I have a "vague illness"!

First fast day today. Just had a herbal tea. I'm quite often a breakfast skipper, I have a plan of Greek yogurt for lunch and making chicken tikka with salad for dinner. With the edition of flat breads for the rest of the family.

My worry is boredom as I'm stuck at home after surgery for a few weeks. I need to keep my hands busy 😞

Quickly checking in, first FD of the week (changed it around again!!) have to dash now. But will be back later to catch up on the thread, thought I'd better check in before I change my mind!! Off to pick up Halloween Jnr and then we're getting our festive decorations up (my favourite time of year can ya tell) good luck Monday fasters

Back on it today. BigChoc thanks for the reminder about alcohol. I really think that was the problem. Fortunately I don't drink much so it won't be a regular occurrence! I do need to track on weekends though.

Good luck with the fasting today, all.

Fasting here too today. DH and DS away for the week so just me and DD. Have treated her to her favourite ready meal from Waitrose for her supper so I don't have to cook at all today!

I was actually planning ahead for today's fast and while buying tins of soup the other day I realised that if you choose wisely, most of them are less than 250 cals for a whole tin. So I'm having a lentil & bacon for lunch, and Scotch broth at supper time. That's actually really filling and warming so I won't be struggling today.

I know home made soup is far nicer and prob even less calories but I have no idea how to count the calories in home made food so I'm letting Mr Heinz work it out for me.

Feeling quite pleased with my cunning plan, this takes away the obsessive calorie-counting so I'm not thinking about food all day. Hopefully.

That's tough, acorns
I know there are only so many times that you can do your nails and try new colours, to keep hands occupied
Are you artistic ? Maybe drawing, painting, embroidery, knitting .... make lemons out of lemonade and try your hand at a new craft, so you feel there is at least a little upside wrt your long convalescence.

CQ I have a similar cunning plan wrt soup - life's too short to weave my own soup when there are such nice ones ready made
I'm twice as cunning as you though, because sometimes I drain, rinse and add a tiny can of peas & carrots ir asparagus (that's real cooking Chez Choc !)

Crepe Your uncle Cedric probably just gives it a shake and doesn't bother handwashing < shudders >
As for the number of people of both sexes who don't wash hands after even a Number TWO .... < screams >
Apparently, most folk don't wash hands after a very wet nose blow / excavation.

Thanks BigChoc I can crochet, albeit badly, so maybe a chance to improve. I haven't ate yet today and other than a hunger pain for ten minutes around 3 o'clock, I'm feeling fine. Dinner then a few spare calories for supper rather than lunch today.

How are you doing, Monday fasters ?
It's time to clean your teeth to remove temptation to nibble
Why not pamper yourself with an early night, to stock up on sleep for the busy week ahead

I am finding today slow going. It's only mid afternoon here, I haven't eaten yet, am holding out till dinner and the afternoon is draaagging. I had two heaped tablespoons of canned corn and that seems to have staved off the hunger a bit.

Only managed one FD last week. Had a wee bit of a mini-break just me and the kids. Definitely indulged too much.

Successful FD today. It was really tough when browsing the restaurant reviews on TripAdvisor though! Probably a task best saved for NFDs.

Currently lying in bed starving, thinking about steak and lobster.

Finishing a FD at 825kcal and not really feeling very hungry. Made spaghetti puttanesca for dinner for everyone, making my portion at the same time in a separate pan because I like more anchovies/olives/capers than everyone else and it was a really decent portion, served with a bag of salad, and was only 407kcal and so very, very tasty. Definitely going to make that a regular FD dinner, even if I have to give the DC something else.

You did make me smile BCF and look at cake in a whole new light
FD today I will be avoiding the staff room.