5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Hello everyone, I'm joining you all from today to give myself a bit of motivation and make myself accountable!

I did 5:2 about two years ago and it worked really well. Unfortunately though I ended up getting complacent and overdoing the treats on NFDs and the weight went back on.

From the beginning of the year to June I lost the 10kg I'd piled on after an accident with Weight Watchers. Then I plateaued at 85kg (13.4 stone). I got sick of feeling so restricted on WW, so now I'm back to fasting. I'm on my second fast day today. Would love to get down to 70kg.

Good luck to everyone fasting this week. :)

Also, thank you to BigChoc. A lot of the info you've posted is new to me - like the insulin spikes caused by snacking. Really eye opening.

I've lost another 1lb taking my total to 14.5lb. I've broken the 1stone barrier yay!!!

This thread has kept me away from the chocolate on fast day number 2

I'm starting again after doing the 5:2 for two years and taking a break during pregnancy. My son is 1 now so I'm feeling ready to get back on it. Last time I went from a size 20 to a size 14 in 2 months

Well done on your SV, Emison Good steady progress

I hope your nasty cold goes quickly, sleepymumma and good luck with your FD, especially when there is birthday cake around

It's natural to find fasting v tough when you're unwell, so it's ok to skip FDs and make this a healthy maintenance week, i.e. nutritious meals with no snacks between, no booze and no junk (a sensible slice tomorrow of DD's birthday cake might be medicinal )
Health & wellbeing need to be our #1 priority, so the scales can wait a week.

Welcome, Biscuits and well done on your return to FDs
I'm glad you found the info here useful.
I recommend kicking the snack habit, to help achieve your goals for weight and health.

When anyone posts they are almost at goal weight & waist, I post tips for longterm maintenance - almost everyone needs a definite plan to maintain longterm

Well done on managing that tough FD, Crepe It's important that you got back in the swing after an indulgent weekend.
Some folk find once they get into the fasting WOE that they no longer have the tolerance for major booze sessions.
This would be compounded if totm is near.

Also, booze in large quantities piles on a huge amount of calories and tends to increase fat storage around the waist.
So, depending on what you ate at the weekend as well, you might see a blip if you weigh in this week. However, stay on track with FDs and NFDS, avoid repeating that weekend and you should haul that back in a week or so.

Thanks BigChoc!

gunting "Last time I went from a size 20 to a size 14 in 2 months"

that is amazing.

How much weight did you lose?

Size 20 to size 14 in 2 months?? Wow. Great effort Gunting.

I'm starting at 18/20 - didn't dare hope I might be a 14 by Christmas but maybe I can.

Second week of 5:2 - FD and at work today, and found it suprisingly easy. I never knew that hunger pangs come and then go away again - I always just assumed they would get worse and worse until I would have to eat my own arm. So I always responded to hunger pangs. Hence the size 18 .

It's a learning curve.

Oh and thanks all for the mfp tip - just don't tick the 'complete diary entry' on FDs. Doh. Blindingly obvious really. I just like the little predictions about how soon I will be a supermodel.

Thank you! I'm hoping for similar this time but I don't want to get my hopes up. I think my issue is all of my weight is on my tummy and it falls off quickly but piles on just as quick too.

At the start of my first 5:2 I was 99kg so 15st 8lbs. I'm not sure what I was at the end of it. I just bought something in a size 14 that I wanted to fit into and that was my incentive. I used to fast Tuesday and Thursday and gym Monday and Wednesday.

Morning yesterday's FD went well ended up with 523 calories.
I've just weighed and I have lost 1.5lb which as really wasn't expecting as my period arrived yesterday afternoon.

Morning all, FD no 2 for me, usually do Thursday but got an invite to dinner yesterday so couldn't turn it down. Have had 2 sensible nfds this week again but I'm going to leave the weigh in until next week as TOTM is due this weekend- one thing I have noticed since starting fasting is I don't crave sweet stuff in the week before my period usually I'd be searching the house for something covered in chocolate!
Well done on the weight losses everyone and hi to any new people, welcome aboard the good ship fasting

Well done on your SV, MyMother

Sounds like you are getting used to fasting well, CQ, Halloween and learning good habits for the future

Welcome back, Gunting
You did brilliantly before, so you know that fasting works for you.

It's important to have a maintenance plan - and IF has many alternative ones - once you reach goal:
If you return to your old WOE, you return to your old weight & waist

For anyone whose weight is more around the midsection, this is caused by:

• Too much alcohol
  . Strongly recommended (for longterm health too): keep within nhs guidelines.

• Too many carbs, especially sugary carbs - more than your particular body can use for energy; hence it stores them as bodyfat.

I recommend:
. Cut right down on sugary crap - e.g. cake, biscuits, choc, sweets, pastries, donuts.
. Reduce savoury junk carbs too, e.g. pizza, crisps, deep fried / breaded food
. Monitor portion size of other starchy carbs e.g. potatoes, rice, pasta. Generally no more than 100-150g cooked weight total in any meal - don't save up to eat 2 meals of carb portions in one go.

• Snacks - Spending too much time in the insulin-dominant state . For everyone NO snacking / grazing between meals. This allows your body more time in the fasted state and hence more opportunity to burn fat.

I'm fasting today too, CQ, Halloween
Good luck to us all
I did 75 mins intense fasted training at the gym this morning, so I'm having 2 small meals, lunch & supper

I'm all about the sweet carbs too BigChoc. And also have the pregnant look going on. I will try and have them with meals instead of snacks or as a meal on their own

The rest of my FD went well, I managed to do a crossfit class and had lots of energy.

Today I weighed myself and I've lost a kilo since Monday! Could this be water weight - even though I was on WW before this week??

Glad to see I'm in good company on a Friday FD hope everyone is sticking it ok - I might actually tweak my fds again as this one has flown in, Friday is normally a really busy day so might be an idea to switch to it as I usually find my second day harder, today was fine (touches wood!!) well done on the weight loss silent biscuit. Nearly dinner time here so I'll check in again next week have a good weekend folks

Well done on your SV, Silent Good start, considering you were on WW directly before.
Probably both water & fat.
Fasting releases water retained from eating excess carbs, which you may have had on WW;
it also helps improve insulin metabolism (if you don't go mad on NFDs) so can often shift fat around the midsection better than standard diets.

Busy days are usually a good choice for FDs, Halloween ntbo, less time to think about food.
Also, concentrating on doing other things reduces hunger

Thanks BigChoc, good to know. I hope I can keep up a momentum.

Have a good weekend. :)

I've had a week off fasting as a result of the PILs visiting for a few days (I really didn't want to tell them about it as they overreact to everything and suddenly it would forever be A Big Thing, so just ate sensibly) and then was unwell (possibly exhausted from the trauma of the PILs) with nausea, abdo pain (and even one episode of vomiting that made me think, "No, no! Not ready for another baby yet!" - thankfully a false alarm) and dropped 3lbs in a couple of days, so then ate sensibly for a few days after that, particularly as I am still EBFing as I knew that was likely just water and not good weight loss.

But back on track for a week now with a couple of FDs of around 1000kcal and weight this morning was 69kg, so ignoring the last fortnight's more wild fluctuations, that's another 1kg down overall.

I definitely find it easier to have lots to do on a FD and power my way through my to do list, partly for distraction but also because I'm just not spending the same amount of time eating or preparing food. I also find it easier to not eat for as long as possible, so prefer a late light lunch then dinner, as once I've started for the day, I'm definitely hungrier.

I'm glad you recovered from P3 (Puke-Producing PILs) Countess
Well done on another kg SV

Also thinking about it, the stalling of the last fortnight hasn't caused similar poor thinking leading to poor eating this time round. I think it is because, thanks to reading here definitely, I am seeing this as an ongoing way of life and feel a lot more encouraged that the general trend of weight loss is down, rather than getting too hung up on daily/weekly variations. Thanks for the encouragement to everyone who contributes here. It really does help.

Hope it's ok if I join you here.
Thursday's fast day was an absolute breeze. Not hugly hungry at any point. Dinner was spot on and calories for the day were 510. I had loads of energy and had a brilliant walk with the dogs.

Friday I broke my fast at 10 with some ham and eggs and then had lamb and veg stew for lunch. Felt dreadful all day, headache, bad diarrhoea and no energy at all. Picked at some turkey in the evening and then folded for no good reason at all and ate lots of pizza which the boys were cooking. So cross with myself because there was no excuse for it. I was supposed to be saving my calories and carbs for today as I'm going out to a special birthday lunch for a good friend.

Still feeling headachy and crap so I'm going to eat as planned today and then have a mini fast day tomorrow.

Hi Folks a NFD here, just after breaking my fast from yesterday with some poached eggs on mushrooms & tomatoes and it was delicious (funny how fasting makes you appreciate what would normally seem like mundane foods!) did a 4mile hike up a hill with a few friends it was such a good clean feeling afterwards. No takeaways this weekend got a nice piece of cod from the butchers so going to have that with some homemade sweet potatoes and veg. I was given some homemade fifteens by a friend this morning and I went to have one after lunch with my coffee and could only manage half
Hey Pheadre nice to see you here, welcome aboard! Sounds like your doing great with the fasting I feel a bit like that after doing a few fast days if I have a bit too much carby/junk type food - it nearly feels like I'm being poisoned! Or it could be a bug, take care of yourself, hope you feel better soon

Good luck any Saturday fasters, I really admire those who fast on a weekend, hopefully it's something I'll be able to do at some point