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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2016 19:25

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
HalloweenQueen1 · 17/10/2016 15:30

Wow Stripy that is fantastic well done Flowers I feel like if I get to see 10 stone again I'll be doing well, but your post has definitely given me lots of hope Smile NFD here FD tomorrow so will check in tomorrow good luck Monday fasters nearly there Wink

CrepeDeChineWag · 17/10/2016 16:14

I have been paying for it all day bigchoc and definately won't repeating that behaviour for some time. I did have a great time and I was ready for it.

So, that thing about different scales different readings? Just been weighed on hospital scales (seated no less) and apparently I am 6.4kg lighter than my initial weigh Shock which is a stone Shock. I'll take that! I still have some way to go but I'm pleased my 'hard work' has paid off.

Keep at it everyone

CQ · 17/10/2016 16:48

Thanks for the advice BigChoc & CeciledeV

I think I need to look at my diary a week in advance and plan my FDs and workouts ahead of time. I have to walk the dogs anyway so probably an hour's walk and then a short weights session would be the way to go on FDs for the first few weeks. And I clearly need to up my game on the press-ups Grin

Completed a NF day on a Sunday, despite being home all day and too near the kitchen I managed to stick to it. V pleased with my willpower.

Am really liking this WOE so far........

CQ · 17/10/2016 16:50

Meant to add - I've been using MFP to track my food intake, but of course it gets cross with me on fast days and tells me I'm not eating enough. Is there a way to adjust the settings for 5:2 or would it involve resetting all the base numbers each time?

I'm guessing that might be a 'premium' feature but I'm not going to pay for it.

It's still a great tool to avoid overeating on NFDs.

HalloweenQueen1 · 17/10/2016 17:50

That's fantastic Crepe Wink well done

Bimblepops · 17/10/2016 21:17

It's me again, drawn back to 5:2 again, hoping I can stick with it properly this time!

I'm flabbier than I've been in many years and I'm fed up with tight jeans and all of my tops getting holes in the front. So I'm taking control back of my eating!

So, I started fasting again last week, two successful fasts and a 5lbs loss - had been feeling dreadfully bloated and that was immediately gone. Hurrah!

Fasted again today, despite being very sleep deprived after DS2 came down with a vomiting bug last night. Kitchen closed at 6.20, at 531 cals.

Am doing 2 meals a day throughout the week, including FD's, giving me the extra fasting of 16:8. But may sometimes have breakfast on weekends.

I've been on a strange sugar binge over the summer, which I'm knocking on the head. Also cutting down on the alcohol - always had at least three dry days each week, now moving to at least 4 days, usually 5.

Right, I'm going to shut up now...I hope everyone else has had a good fast today.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2016 23:51

Congratulations on your SV, Crepe and achieving your stone milestone already

You can reach your milestones, too Halloween Just settle into the WOE and the losses mount up
Good luck tomorrow

That's good, CQ You are getting used to this WOE.
Your exercise plan for FDs sounds just right
You - and everyone - are welcome to join us on the 5:2 / IF ExerciseThread3 for more detailled advice about exercise of all kinds, e.g. how to do pressups or deep squats.

Maybe someone else can say if they just ignore mfp whinges on FDs or if there is a way to set for 500 ?

Welcome back, Bimble
Tackling sugar & booze is always an excellent move, both for longterm weight management & health.

OP posts:
HalloweenQueen1 · 18/10/2016 08:41

First FD of the week - soup for lunch (118 Cals) & omelette & salad for dinner (308) with lots of tea to see me through. Thanks Bigchoc for the support. Good luck Tuesday fasters

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 18/10/2016 09:19

Checking in after a slightly sobering weigh in. Haven't been weighing in regularly but went back to doctors and used scales there. Seem to be same weight I was about six weeks ago. I have been off 5:2 for about ten days for illness and a number of big parties (definitely over ate) but even so. Back on FD today and am also going to invest some scales

Mymotherwasright · 18/10/2016 11:47

I survived my FD yesterday and finished on 507 calories. Very pleased with that.
I've calculated my tdee and downloaded mfp so I'm already to go it will be interesting to see where my downfalls are.

Bimblepops · 18/10/2016 13:26

I use mfp, can't see a way to change it to accept 5:2 as a valid eating option, although it may well be in the Premium version (which I'm not going to buy!).

Like BigChoc said, I just ignore its helpful message about not eating enough calories on fasting days!

MyWonderfulMimi · 18/10/2016 15:52

CQ In MFP just don't tick complete diary when you've added everything. MFP will remember everything else - but not to tell you off Smile

onwego · 18/10/2016 17:26

I stayed the same last week. I'm pleased that I maintained as I had a couple of nights out, and a big loss the week before. Back on it this week, and I finished yesterday's fast day at about 600 cals. I'll make up the extra cals today by having another 600 day today.

HalloweenQueen1 · 18/10/2016 18:02

Well kitchen is closed, FD 1 done, finished at 588 Cals, felt really hungry around 4pm so I did have a handful of cooked chicken that was in the fridge and then had my omelette & salad straight after, feeling nice and full now but I'm in a nibbling mood so staying well away from the kitchen Confused

Onwego that's fantastic doing 2 fds back to back, don't think I have the resolve for that, well done you.

As another poster said with mfp I just don't click the complete button on fds, when I first started using it, that very same thing used to drive me mad!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2016 19:45

Clean your teeth right now Halloween it really helps stop you eating again - and you'd kick yourself if you spoil what has been a good FD so far.

Thanks for the mfp tip, Mimi Flowers Very useful

Well done on your 1st FD, MyMother Very impressive, nailing it 1st time round.

Wheelie I recommend you mfp for a week - sounds like you need the support with NFDs
mfp will give a reality check on portion size and the number of treats & glasses of wine

OP posts:
Daisiespurple · 19/10/2016 13:55

On my second mini FD of the week, going well. Currently weighing less than I have for a while so really pleased.

Seemed to have lost my appetite which is no bad thing.

Good luck to all fasters today

MyWonderfulMimi · 19/10/2016 16:27

Hi BC, I'm still a lurker! Smile. I've not been 5:2ing much lately due to holidays and enjoying the summer. I've put on 7lbs, but am now determined to get back on the wagon and back to my happy weight. Hospital visit tomorrow which I'm hoping will get to the bottom of my problem of passing out. Walked almost 7 miles this morning, so pleased with that. Hoping it's just low BP and nothing more sinister - fingers X'd.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2016 19:20

Fingers crossed for tomorrow, Mimi Flowers I hope the hospital can quickly put you right again.
That's priority one, before you get back on 5:2 - avoid fasting when you are fainting anyway.
I would not even suggest 16:8 or 14:10

Instead, while any treatment is ongoing, or if you have to wait for test results, I recommend "healthy habits" instead:
Unless the doc says otherwise - Eat 3 or 4 nutritious meals daily, no snacks between, no booze, no junk.
Gentle walks sound good

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2016 19:22

Congrats on your SV, Daisies You are doing really well

OP posts:
Woodifer · 19/10/2016 23:02

Hope all goes well mimi, well done daisies. I've been fasting today, though ended up over 500 cal again. Still feels like success. Did hard cycling interval training last night.

Had roast peppers, onions and courgettes (and cherry tomatoes), steamed brocolli and one of those marinated salmon fillets you can just microwave. Salad and left over roast chicken earlier at work. Trying to aim for high quality of food (much as I likebconvenience of a ready meal). When i MFP on NFDs I am usually short on both calcium and iron (and protein actually). So I am alternating one day taking calcium (+ vit D n other stuff) next day taking iron supplement.

My scales have gone flat. Weighed myself at cycle training centre last night as 64kg (admittedly prob bit dehydrated after work out and different scales), but started at 67(68?)kg, and last weighed at home 65kg so some SV (if not consistently measured!).

Bimblepops · 19/10/2016 23:20

Aborted FD for me today, as I was feeling rather nauseous and unwell. So just ate lunch and dinner, coming in at 1116, which is still well under my TDEE.

Assuming I'm feeling okay on Fri, that'll be my 2nd FD of the week.

Well done on your FD's today Daisies and Woodifer.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2016 08:03

I hope you feel better soon, Bimble
Don't fast with nausea or a stomach upset; better to just have a healthy sub-TDEE or miniFD Friday if you aren't 100%

Well done on your SV, Woodifer
Since you are losing fat, don't worry about going over 500; sustainability over weeks is the key to longterm weight management

If mfp flags low protein, it is important to boost this

  • to reduce hunger, to retain muscle, to have sufficient iron & other minerals (women of menstruating age are often deficient in these)

Suggestions:

  • Eggs (scrambled, omlette, fritatta...), fish (shrimps, salmon, sardines, cod, tuna ..) are especially healthy protein, but really any poultry or meat you fancy.
  • If you are veggy: plain Greek yoghurt, kefir, cheese - helps your Calcium too
  • Add beans, lentils, peas - I often have a big portion as my starchy carb in a meal
OP posts:
Daisiespurple · 20/10/2016 10:09

Thank you Bimble and BigChoc

Sorry you are not feeling too well Bimble just take it easy until you are better. You need good nutritious food while feeling unwell.

Well done Woodifer - great to read about people's successes Smile

Hope your hospital appointment goes well today Mimi

NFD today for me

Sleepymumma13 · 20/10/2016 11:41

Hi all

First FD of the week today - had a nasty cold and really needed comfort food Mon and Tues. Was going to do yesterday but didn't. Found the first week so easy I'm annoyed its much harder this week!

So am fasting today. It's my daughters birthday today so there will be cake later but I'm sure I can resist! Have a good day every one x

CrepeDeChineWag · 20/10/2016 12:30

Well I'm feeling awful. Couldn't fave a FD til yesterday after my weekend drinking antics. Really struggled between 2-4pm yesterday but powered through and felt glad that I'd got back into it. Feel so tired after a very early wake up this morning and now feel sick as a dog. Have had scrambled egg on wholemeal as I thought it was hunger but now the thought of eating anything is making me want to be violently sick. Also feel quite weepyy though I am due on this weekend (and no definately no chance of pregnancy), feel a bit headachy. Surely this can't still be the effects of the weekend (I was very unwell with the drink I have to confess Blush). Anyway, I'll stop moaning.