5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

That's exactly the way, Emison When you have a diagnosed medical condition like thyroid, PCOS, T2, IBS, asthma etc you can explain that 5:2 helps this but that family without this condition don't need to fast.

Well done, Daisies Sounds like you are adapting well to the miniFd system.
Congrats on your SV, Woodifer Some will be fat; some will be released water - which is also good to lose, because you don't want to retain extra water.

Well done on your Monday FD, SamandCj That's obviously tough when you have to have lunch and with your underweight mum.
When you eat with her on NFDs, these are tasty foods which may help build her up:

Nutritious high cal food:
. Oily fish like salmon & mackerel
. avocados
. almond / cashew/ pnut butter, unsalted nuts
. hummus, taramasalata, tzatziki
. full fat Greek yoghurt, e.g. Total
. olive oil (NOT standard veg oil) drizzled over salads or baked veg
. 85-90% cocoa chocolate (v high antioxidant and v little sugar) e.g. Lindt Mild Excellence
. Dates or figs with cream

Quick hello from Andalucia! We're out here for just under 2 weeks and I was hoping to lose 1.5kg during that time but it might be a bit optimistic... Biggest challenge with eating is the fact that I'm vegetarian but there's an Aldi and Lidl close by which have a rather impressive range of suitable food. Most meals are salad with some sort of protein but there is wine in the evenings and a few ice creams.

I am, however, doing something I've never done on holiday before - running! Hadn't yet returned to running after baby born but thought holiday a great opportunity to make a start, so doing C25K. Weather was atrocious today but I still went out and did it!

FD tomorrow - tofu and salad for lunch (I flew the tofu to Spain with me!) then tortilla and salad for dinner

Hello all, I promised I would come back when I reached this goal - as of today I am officially no longer obese! I am into the overweight category for the first time in my adult life. Feel quite emotional this morning and so proud of the changes I have made. Thanks to a vegan diet and 5:2ing I have lost a total of 66lbs in just under three years. Slow and steady wins the day! Good luck to all those of you who are just starting out on this journey. I have got about another 2.5 stone to go but I feel so much better physically and mentally than I did and am finally learning to like my body.

That's fantastic news VeganCanBeFabulous so pleased for you.

Absolutely brillian milestone, Vegan achieving this BMI class for the first ever time as an adult.
A great feelgood NSV wrt your body too.
Well done indeed < loud cheering section >

Enjoy your vacation, Eagle Lots of lovely tapas
I'm very impressed by your planning and your FDs - it's impressive even to maintain during hols.

Thanks BigChoc. And huge congrats to Vegan - that's a really impressive and inspirational result.

Well it didn't go so well with the kids at tea time. DS said very scornfully 'I thought you said diets don't work and you would never diet again?'. When I tried to explain that this was a lifestyle change that would improve my overall health, he just said 'Yeah, whatever - until the next theory comes along and this is chucked out.' None so cynical as a teenager who knows it all.

Ignore your rude DS, CD How disrespectful to you, regardless of what WOE you choose
However, I would never base the rest of my life on what a teenager thinks.

If anyone in your life is open to peer-reviewed science, then show them the "Scientific Evidence for Fasting" section at the bottom of the OP, referencing umpteen papers by leading scientists in fields like T2, healthy aging.

Morning all,

I'm on my second FD of the week - after my penguin fest the other day. I feel better for it already, and its only half 10! Sipping a black coffee after drinking berry tea and some water this morning. I'm looking after my nephew today so will be very busy and hopefully will find it easy like Monday.... fingers crossed.

Planning another low cal dinner, but have some low cal soups in case I get peckish earlier.

Enjoy everyone xx

Omg Vegan well done, that's fantastic. xx

Welcome CQ

There has been a lot of scientific research supporting 5:2 so why not focus on that? It will be hard to hide it from her I think. She could watch Michael Mosely's documentary that was on BBC. It is available here: vimeo.com/103656060

Hi All
I have finally had enough of losing the same 3st over and over again. I've been researching and came across 5:2.
I want a sustainable solution to reach a healthy weight and belive this fits the bill.

I have 5 kids so this should be doable and fit in with family life, my daughters are 5 and 4 and I want them to grow up with a healthy attitude with food, they are old enough to notice my yo-yo dieting.

Yesterday I had a 25hr fast which I decided will be my kick off. I think Mondays and Thursdays will be easiest for me to fast on going forwards.

Welcome, MyMother and well done on nailing your 1st fast.
To make fasting sustainable and also to retain lean mass, I recommend that you consume the allowed 500 cals for your regular weekly FDs.
Since you find zero-cal fasts doable, you could save all your FD cals for a decent supper with the DCs

If you are interested in the science behind fasting, health & weight loss, check out the "Scientific Evidence" section at the end of the OP.

That's fantastic, VeganCanBeFabulous!

Thanks for the update.

Hi CQ - or should I call you 'Calling all stations'?

About your DS - ask him how many press ups he can do in an hour - because you know someone who has been IFing for over 4 years and can do 1200 in that hour. Oh, BTW, he's 79yrs-old!

This is not a diet - it's a WOL, for ever!

B&W

Thanks BigChoc I've been checking out links and have read most of the thread.

B&W that is amazing I can't even do 1 press up.

Back again, confession time.

After last weeks slip up / blip and the kick up the backside needed I did it again. Really naughty Tuesday. Instead of limiting myself to 1 treat it turned into a whole day. And about 3 lbs on.
Fasted weds and lost just over 2lbs.

I am back on track now meals planned and know what I am doing
For the next few days as I just need to try and focus on that target goal of just under 4lbs. It's taken a lot of motivation to get in the mindset.

One thing I have noticed is my mood and my get up and go has really improved since my food has improved.

I've given myself to the end of this month to do this.

Good luck to all the new fasters and today's fasters

Morning all not kept up with the thread this week as been v busy at work and had a cold. Scales still going in right direction slowly

Sorry your ex is being so crap MrD - that's great though not to let it effect your food choices, well done

And vegan that's brilliant news. Hope to catch up with all the other SVs and NSVs later.

stripey focussing very hard on the NFDs here too, they are the key to this as a healthy WOE

have a good Friday everyone

Morning everyone, tried to check in yesterday for my 2nd FD of the week but kept getting logged out again anyway yesterday went well, slightly harder that Tuesday (anyone else find their 2nd FD harder??) but I got through it (lots of tea) and finished on around 520 Cals. Like a few others I do find my Nfds a bit of a minefield for loosing the run of myself but since changing my fds around (Tuesday and Thursday instead of Monday) I find I'm not as bad. Weighed in this morning and another 2lbs off so finally have the first stone off + 1lb so I'm delighted will try to keep on track over the weekend now I have a spinning class booked for tomorrow morning so that'll breakfast - well done everyone else with your fds and weight loss - we're getting there

Yes Halloween me! I find the second day harder but think that is because my 1st is on a Monday so after a relatively 'relaxed' weekend I am ready for it. Does it not get easier with time? I am coming to the end of week 4, first weigh in Monday. I have definately lost weight so quite looking forward to getting on the scales

Oh and well done on your first stone (and more)

Thanks Crepe, I'm glad to know it's not just me, yes I think your right the first one I'm all ready for it after having a food full weekend but by the Thursday I'm just hanging out for the weekend!! Well done on having the willpower to keep away from the scales you will definitely have lost weight and that'll be a great motivator when you see the scales

I don't have any in the house so that helps. I will be getting weighed on different scales though which is not brilliant but I'm sure it won't make much difference.

Quiet a good idea that Crepe, if I weigh to much it can end up derailing my good habits if it's not telling me what I want to hear!! Think I might weigh again in a fortnight again just to take that pressure off. You probably notice it on your clothes anyway I would say - I pulled on a pair of jeans today that are normally a bit tight in the waist and I've had to keep pulling them up all day taking that as a good sign

Well done on your SV, HalloweenQueen and the trousers falling down NSV

Well done on your inches NSV, Crepe
Different scales can vary quite a bit:
e.g. our gym scales under-estimated by 3kg.
We kept complaining and they bought new ones .... which under-estimate by 2 kg
I think flattery must be their policy to keep the punters happy !

As much as that? That's a BIG difference. I'll take some measurements too. As a classic yo-yo-er with a history on MFP going back qt least 5 years I'll probably be able to compare weight and measurements and see if they correlate.