5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Congrats on your SV, Countess That's wonderful

Well done, good progress with the carb addiction, Jing You've achieved a healthier lifestyle NSV.
It's usually more sustainable to stay on 5:2 with just the 2 FDs.
I recommend people reserve extra mini-FDs to compensate for major social events and reserve 4:3 for plateaux.

Good luck with the new system, Jing
That's the one Mosely does personally: breakfast & supper.
It gives about 2 x 12-hr fasts, which suited his family life.

Yes, just relax, Emison Natural weight fluctuations can easily hide a 1-2 lb loss, so look at the general trend over the weeks.
Also, some people tend to lose in fits & starts, i.e. a few lb every 2-3 weeks, rather than linearly over time.

That's right, stay on track, Daisy avoid the totm munchies on NFDs and you should see the difference after totm

Good luck with the breakfast / supper FD system, Knowler
Try a black coffee / espresso and a walk for lunch

TBH BigChocFrenzy I was putting on 1lb to 2lb a week due to my medication so I'm still happy just to maintain. The way I see it, it's a marathon and not a race . BTW thank you for your wise words!

Hi can I join your friendly-sounding group?

I started 5:2 recently. Have done 4 fast days. The first three went well but yesterday I struggled. My mood was low and I was hungry all day. I think I ended up eating about 600 calories.

I have three children and a busy life but I'm overweight and have PCOS and IBS. I'm hoping fasting will help my health as well as lose weight. The idea appeals so much because I have a very slow metabolism and I get bloated. I was hoping it will be a lifestyle change not just a diet.

Monday fasting day is fine because actually I relish a break from eating after constant food preparation over the weekend. But yesterday was sooooo hard.

Hi and welcome Too

Tips for fast days from my perspective which help them....
Drink LOADS of water - seriously, it helps flush out any crap, and also stops you feeling so hungry
The day before a fast day - try to make sure the last meal of that day isn't too carb heavy, that can make me hungrier the next day
Keep your mind busy - its easy to want to eat out of boredom etc (for me anyway)

If you are able to make it work for you, I'm sure this WOE will help your health. Its helped mine loads in a year - asthma, skin, digestion all improved

Haha - that's exactly what I have done for lunch, BigChoc! And weirdly, although I'd usually be climbing the walls at noon for lunch, i'm still ok. Fingers crossed - 3rd FD and I stand a chance of actually coming in at 500cals!!

Hello, can I join please?

I'm 39, BMI is 31 and am looking to lose a couple of stone to get back to my weight of two years ago (pre divorce/anti depressants). Did a few weeks of 5:2 over the summer but took the eat 'normally' instruction as my version of normal (i.e. Henry VIII style banqueting) so didn't lose a huge amount.

Have now calculated TDEE and think 1800 is perfectly do-able. Need to up exercise too, as work from home and therefore am v sedentary.

Looking forward to getting going with this properly now :)

Hi all

Hi cherry

That's good orogress on your 2nd FD, allright
You are getting in the fasting swing very quickly

Welcome, Petals and well done on a good 1st FD

Many folk on these threads have found that 5:2 helps PCOS, because fasting helps the insulin-related metabolic issues that cause it.
Other 5:2ers, like talkinpeace and her DH have found 5:2 can clear up IBS (100% in their case)

Our rl health improvements experiences have been backed uo by scientific human studies on fasting, which have also shown great improvements in asthma and some forms of acne.

Welcome, Cherry
Well done, you've already had an important insight:
your previous "eating normally" was what put on the weight.
Now you've calculated that your body burns around 1800 cals daily, which is your target for NFDs and allows 3-4 decent meals.

mfo can help train you to eat within this, until you get the hang of suitable portion size for your body.

What really helps you stay within TDEE AND reduce hunger:

NO snacking between meals
On NFDs, have any fruit, latte, juice, alcohol, "treats" etc as oart of a meal, never on its own.

On my second FD today, and really struggled. Been hungry most of the day, has gotten better the later in the day I get. Think I had the reason from Mr Darcy a few posts back, had a very carby dinner last night. Lesson learned for Mondays FD!
Anyway, have had dinner now and finished at around 650 cals, quite happy with that.
Now just looking forward to breakfast tomorrow.

Hello just checking in and TOTM. First one since stsrting this WOE. Three NFDs to get through whilst feeling ravenous. How will I do it. I have lost 8lb in three weeks so don't want to gain this week. Any tips appreciated.

Hello all - still hanging on in there although finding it hard to motivate myself to do mfp. BUT I come armed with a pile of victories!

It was my 45th birthday last week which was a bit hard as not been feeling my best of late (had baby 4 months ago) and had a bit of mid-decade angst! However...

I sorted out my now very thin greying hair and had a decent cut and colour

I went out to a nice bar with friends and had my photo taken and didn't look too hideous when I found the pic on the bar's website despite my 2 minute dress/make up prep

The trousers I bought in Anthropologie a couple of months ago that wouldn't go anywhere near round my waist now fit perfectly

Despite being a bit slapdash with mfp I have mostly good habits now. And things which used to be everyday foods such as bread are now more of a treat

I try to boost my step count each day by doing exercise videos in the eve. Soon I hope to attempt proper exercise!

And... I have now lost a total of 16.5lbs!!!

We are planning a holiday in October - plenty of time to lose more and get back to my pre pregnancy weight

We are also thinking about taking an extended holiday in Dec/Jan - by then I could well be down to the weight I was 10 years ago

So feeling pretty pleased really - thank you all for your ongoing support

Good SV, glass

Just during totm, to avoid craving spirals & absent-minding evening nibbling & grazIng:

• Go low GI, i.e. no sugary carby junk = no sweets, cake, biscuits, pizza, crisps, chips. No fruit juice or sugary cereal. Instead have protein at every meal - especially fish - masses of veg, beans / lentils / peas, small portions of baked / boiled potato / brown rice / quinoa / wholegrain bread, full fat plain Greek yoghurt.
• No alcohol
• Be extra careful about NO snacking, even healthy snacks, between meals.
• Aim for 2l water daily - start the day with a glass & carry on glugging
• Have a short daily walk outside
• Make time to get plenty of sleep

Happy 45th for last week, Eagle
Congrats on your SV and lots of good NSVs:

• loose clothes = lost inches NSV = lost bodyfat
• increased steps = healthy lifstyle NSV
• partial mfp has helped a sensible eating habits NSV

Morning all

My lovely darling DS decided 5am was waking up time today, could've been worse I suppose! Just going to have to be mindful of a tired me wanting carbs later on and going to boil a couple of eggs just now to take with me just in case

Good luck all Friday fasters

Hey, just checking in.

Confession time - not been great with my food over here.

I have temp plastic teeth and been told be careful as they break easily what with that and the sensitivity I've pretty much been living on pasta. Not huge quantities as I'm shocked at just how small my portions are.

We have been skipping breakfast. So go from about 8pm until 1pm without food. I have been drinking water and Diet Coke during the day as all the juices and pop is full fat except Diet Coke.

My normal tipple is cider and that's unheard of over hear so been having either archers and Diet Coke (they think I'm mad and keep saying no lemonade Diet Coke bad) I like it anyway. Or wine with Sprite I'm only having 2 drinks on a eve.

It could be worse I suppose but the salads have gone out the window as I just can't tear the lettuce and onions with these things.

I'm hoping normality will resume soon as last day of treatment today I hope but I need to eat solids as if I need any adjustments that needs to be done tomorrow.

Second gain for me. Only half a pound but...

Having said that, I'm enjoying WOE, so will endeavour.

Happy weekend all.

Fourth FD found it tough and lost energy in afternoon. Need to last til tomorrow breakfast - as no more calories

Stay strong, Wheelie Not long to go.
A hot Bovril is only 10 cals and it takes the edge off hunger.
I suggest you clean your teeth afterwards, to avoid tempation and then pamper yourself with an early night

Stripey With delicate teeth, it's very understandable you can't crunch salad veg.
Do try to have protein though - eggs are pretty soft whether scrambled, fried or as a cheese omelette.
Also, smoked salmon melts in the mouth, or baked salmon is soft & flaky.
Mince might suit as well.

Dakota It's quite common for weight to go up and down, especially if you are a daily weigher. However, the trend over say 3 weeks should be downwards.
When did you start 5:2 and what have you lost overall in that time, lb and inches ?

If you have been on 5:2 for say 3 weeks and haven't lost lb or inches in that time, then you need to look at your NFDs:

• Are you snacking or grazing ?
  If so, you may be eating far more than you realise and eating back the FD deficit

• Have you checked via mfp if you average around TDEE ?

Many folk lose without needing to mfp, but some folk have got into the habit over the years of eating far more than their body can burn.
So you may need mfp for a while, to retrain yourself wrt portion size and also to highlight any calorie bombs

Hi all, did my first weigh in today after doing this woe for just over a week (3 fds) and lost nearly 3lbs. V pleased as I really haven't nailed the nfds yet - but slowly starting to realise that my normal is really not so normal after all. You'd think that after having put 3 stone on in 2 years the penny might have dropped earlier, but hey ho. Here's to next week.

Thanks! I had a bath and I'm in bed so great minds. What does 'mfp' mean?

It's "my fitness pal" wheelie
It's a calorie counting app. Good luck and keep going

Hello all, I posted on one of these threads a while ago but fell out of the habit. I have been totally converted to the 5:2 WOL. I've been eating this way for over a year now and I love it. It is so flexible and once you get used to the long gaps between meals it's great. I used to think I had to eat every four hours (I used to get nauseated and dizzy) but I've since realised that actually I was just eating way to much sugar/white carbs and once I moved to a more protein heavy diet I found it easy.

I am a vegan (as you may have guessed from my username!) and so have to work quite hard to eat a high protein diet. I use a lot of nuts and but butters, seeds, lentils, tofu, beans and pulses. I also tend to choose brown basmati and wild rice over pasta and generally only eat seeded bread. If I had read this two years ago I would have thought that sounded so incredibly dull but I have grown to love it and I love the difference these food have made to the way I feel. I still have junky food sometimes (dark chocolate, gin, some biscuits, some wines, chips and many brands of crisps are all vegan) but they are just now and again, not more than one a day on non fast days.

Over the last two and a half years I have lost almost 4 and a half stone and taken my BMI from 42(!!!) to 30.8 and only have 5lbs to go to get from an obese BMI to just overweight which I am very excited about! I have been obese all my adult life and am now starting to finally like my body. I have another two and a half stone to go till I get to my goal weight of 8 stone 12lbs (I am very short, but have quite a large frame).

I have done two fast days this week already but I am trying to eat slightly below TDEE on my NFDs this week because I've got a very sociable week next week and don't want to undo all my hard work. Sorry for the me me me post, just wanted to say hi really. Hope everyone has a lovely weekend.

Thanks bigchoc perhaps I do need to accept that I need to track my food every day to some extent...I will get onto that!

i am down overall- lost 3lbs in week one and since then a tiny gain and then a half pound gain, so still down by more than two pounds in three weeks.