5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

At mealtimes, instead of meals, I have:

• A cup of peppermint / ginger / fenchel & anisseed tea
• A walk outside, or sprint intervals, or quick indoor exercise (I work in cargo jeans & T) - up & down stairs / squats & lunges / pressups
• A massage chair session (we have 2 chairs with several programs & music / visuals )
• (iPad with SIM) Mumsnetting, private Emails, banking etc

Thanks BigChoc. I'm fine if I push through it: not hungry now. It's just such a change in mindset not to eat (a lot) at the first pang of hunger or, worse, at set times through habit.

Keep going, Monday fasters, not long until supper

Thank you BigChoc

Need to make it through till 6pm for 300 calorie feast

Had a few little moments but gone really well today

Well opp didn't go exactly to plan, didn't get put under general anesthesia as there was a slight mix up with days and it should of been tomorrow at a hospital not dental clinic so instead of loosing another days hol bit the bullet and got it done today. They were amazing and the amount of pain relief I had was amazing and was told if you feel a thing raise your hand and you will have more.

They have got rid of my metal fillings and replaced them with white ones so shouldn't have any more issues.

I have had some of my teeth replaced with plastic temp teeth and told to be very careful so soups and soft food it is. And then back in for 4 root canals weds

Quite happy I've not been over eating at all but will still have a couple of treats as it is a holiday but straight back on it at home. I'm good at home as that's my safe place.

Whatever I put on I will loose as I still have my target in mind and I will get there!

Hi, can I join you?
I did 5:2 after I had dd 2.5 years ago, and managed to lose 2.5 stone and felt amazing. A few personal issues the next year and I have now regained most of it. So starting again and today is my first fast. Going well so far, have had a boiled egg and looking forward to chicken salad for dinner.

Fd6 for me and the easiest so far...being back at work and hectic helped! I actually have about 150 calls left for tonight- do people allow themselves unhealthy snacks if they fall in to calorie count or not?

150 cals is a nice packet of snack a jacks or two...or do I have to focus on 'proper' calories?

Hi Monday fasters checking in here. Just waiting for the rotten baby to go to sleep so I can go and binge....on soup, grated courgettes and a boiled egg 😬. Top tip from me - if you are an options hot choc aficionado (sp????) then the hot white choc, although 5 cals more, seems much more fulfilling to me!!

Not long now.....stay strong

So a FD for me today. I've got into the habit of having a protein shake with almond milk for breakfast and a cup a soup for lunch which leaves me about 300 cals for dinner. I've started shopping at Aldi and last week was the first time I bought their almond milk.

Took my shake to work and when I got home zapped the bar code to log my cals on MFP. Couldn't believe it when it said 300ml was 102 cals!! Checked and double checked and couldn't work out what had happened as unsweetened almond milk is normally about 40 cals for 300ml. Then I realised. Id picked up soya milk by mistake!!

On a more serious note I've over indulged at the weekend again. Gained 4lbs!! Gah! Why is wrong with me? I can be really focused and disciplined in the week but as soon as Friday night hits I fall apart!!

Yikes Stripey it's all go! Glad everything went well with the fillings and good luck for Wed.

Football I know exactly what you mean, Fri night comes along and all my good work the rest of the week gets washed away. My best weekends are the ones that I MFP and don't cheat myself, not like this weekend .

Kitchen closing at 577, today was tough for me hoping tomorrow will be a bit easier

First FD at work. Had breakfast and dinner and was ok. But waves of hunger on and off and a slump mid afternoon. Proud of myself but can't wait til breakfast

That's good news, Stripey Sounds like a good job by the hospital, especially pain relief..

Welcome, User I hope your 1st FD went went well. Your plan sounded good

Dakota I strongly recommend no sugary / carby junk, or booze on FDs, both for weight & health benefits.

Normal IF is a healthy WOE, but IFOC (IF On Crap) may not be.

Research has shown that most people still lose eating fast food & including treats etc on NFDs, so long as they maintain a decent weekly calorie deficit
BUT
There is no research about weight loss - or health effects - of junky FDs

You only fast 2 days a week, so keep those days reasonably healthy.
An Options hot choc has 40-60 cals, which I suggest as the maximum junk allowance on FDs.
Save bigger junk treats for the other 5 days.

That 4 lb weekend gain is probably mostly water retention, FootballMum from very high carbs and maybe booze.
So, at least some should disappear after your FD

Some people find that weekends sabotage weight loss - if one or even both FDs each week are needed to cancel out the extra calories.

Especially on lowish TDEE:
e.g. 1500 TDEE gives only a 2000 deficit from the 2 FDs, so it's easy to consume all this back on Saturday & Sunday - say with an extra 1000 cals of food & booze those 2 days to make them 2500 calories each instead of 1500.
Even one really indulgent day per week like that would probably halve average weight loss on a low TDEE.

What to Do about Weekend Sabotage

• If you don't normally binge at weekends, you may just have started "rewarding" yourself for FDs.
  So, you should be able to just return to your usual weekend habits quite easily.

• However, if those indulgent weekends are typical for you in recent years - probably how the extra weight happened, then consider these tactics, or a combination:

1. Move one FD to Saturday or Sunday. I usually have a weekend FD, because it makes the most difference
   Or plan one of them as an extra mini-FD (sub-1000) until you can retrain your weekend habits

2. Allow yourself extra at weekends by eating below TDEE on the 3 weekday NFDs,
   e.g. TDEE-300 would give you an extra 900 cals for an indulgent Saturday, then aim for TDEE on Sunday

3. Were you snacking / grazing / nibbling, especially evenings ?
   Remember our main 5:2 tip: Eat meals, nothing between. Nothing after your last meal.
   Any treats or booze must be part of a meal, not consumed on their own.

4. Was a lot of the excess alcohol cals ?
   Aim to keep within nhs alcohol guidelines. Important for your longterm health too

5. Roughly decide on a weekend mealplan on advance, including what treats to have and with which meal.
   No need to count calories, just having a mealplan can avoid bingeing on other things.
   Try to plan nutritious meals, then add a treat / alcohol to one meal Saturday & one meal Sunday.

6. Mfp the next weekend, to track what is happening and see what can be changed

Thanks BC. Yes you're right, alcohol was, and always has been, a big factor on a weekend. I've considerably cut back over the last year but I still tend to have a drink a Friday and Saturday night and once I drink I seem to lose all control of what I eat! Plus if I drink to the point where I'm hungover I then eat crap the next day too!

I've got nothing social on at all this weekend so I'm going to have a dry one. I aim for 1500 on NFDs and I'd bought of dropping hat to 1200 in weeks where I've got some sort of social function on to build a bit of a buffer but I think the key is not to drink at all unless it's a special occasion.

I've got a networking event on Thus night and I'd normally have a couple of glasses of wine but it's my usual day for a FD. I've decided not to swap it and just drink water. I need to start changing some of my habits, not just when it's easy but when it's a bit more challenging too.

Will check in Friday night for some support.

Morning
Hope you aren't too uncomfortable this morning stripy

I'm starting to get a bit worried
This week lost 3.5lb 1in underbust half inch off waist 3off my hips an 2 off my widest part.
On my scales fat%is down and muscle and bone is up.
I shouldn't be losing so quickly should I go and get a check up just in case?

Wow olive that loss is amazing. Why are you worried about the rate of loss?

stripey hope you're better x

I can feel myself fading out the dc have gone back to school and I'm sitting in with my youngest as she's just started nursery - it's changed my routine completely and I find myself getting hungrier and not able to stick to not eating on FDs. help!

Morning all

Kids back today so back to routing and kicking of with a FD straight away!

May well get out for a short run at lunchtime too

I've just realised we are into September properly now, and in two days it will be exactly a year since I started this WOE!

I'm all good thanks. Eating was a experience il give you that. Thought couldn't go wrong with soup and promptly hit the spoon into my teeth.
Even bread dunked in soup was just too much so I played safe with rice as smoked salmon salad that was finely chopped so I could pretty much just swallow without chewing.

The problem is I have teeth in places I didn't so it's going to take some time to get used too.

You know those plastic joke shop teeth you get at halloween, feels like that.

Going to try and actually bite my food today.

I feel awfully bloated but tmi alert I've not been to the toilet for a few days I always get that on hols.

I'm not a massive drinker so been having water and diet drinks during the day and 2 wine & lemonade in the evening but I'm not worried as it won't become a habit at home as alcohol hits me hard now.

Good luck to all today's fasters

My 2nd FD yesterday went ok, but still struggling a bit to confine myself to 500cals in the evening. I didn't have anything during the day except water and black coffee but once i'd started eating in the evening it was difficult to stop. Came in at about 750-800cals which was a bit frustrating after being so focussed during the day.

Feeling good today though: had a nice breakfast of cappuccino and a small cheese twist; loved every bit of it and now feeling very very full. Normally at this time (before 10am ) I would be pining for lunch!! So generally i'm feeling good about things - next FD tomorrow and determined to nail the 500 cals.

weigh in thursday morning :)

Starting 5:2 today. I have never been so plump, am probably mid menopause. Can't wear any summer skirts or trousers from last year which is horrible. I don't think I've been eating more but don't actually own scales so I'm going to get my tape measure out.

Olive Congrats on your SV and inches NSV.
That rate of loss sounds fine.
That higher % of lean mass and lower % bodyfat is normal progress for IF and is likely to improve your health factors.

iirc, you've still a fair way to go to reach healthy BMI ? It's quite common for those at highish BMI to have a much higher longterm rate of loss for several weeks or months.
3-4 lb weekly is not unusual at higher BMI - I think our MrD and Vibrantella, who have each lost a few stone, were around your rate for quite a while, before slowing down.

If you are feeling really hungry or weak, you can optionally eat a little more at say the weekend, but no need otherwise.
A couple of folk in fact lost 10 or 12 lb the first week and then settled down to the 3-4 lb for a while, no problem.

Welcome, Prune and good luck on your 1st FD

Menopause drastically changes your hormone balance - towards fat storage - especially around the mid-section.
We know most women put on weight then and usually in the pre-meno phase too, without necessarily changing eating, drinking or activity habits.

I'm 60, always been fit and trim before, but nothing - including low carb - shifted the meno weight that came in my 50s - until 5:2 zapped it
I've been on 5:2 for nearly 3 years and maintaining quite easily with it. This is my permanent WOL now.

Wow, nearly a year, MrD Think how far you've come.
Do post and share on your 5:2 anniversary, on the 5:2 / IF Inspirations thread too

NomDePrune hope your fast day goes well today