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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2016 19:25

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2016 06:56

I'm fasting today too, need, so we can keep each other company on our Sunday FD

I enjoy a weekend FD - I often take my iPad to the gym and have an FD Kindle feast with tasty sides of spin, weights, stretching, sauna, massage Smile and their chilled water fountain makes it easy to drink loads too.
(Today, I'll take an hour first to prepare my German tax return, lots of documents to sort & copy Sad)

Yy, to flexibility: It is one reason I find this WOL so easily sustainable.
I move FDs around so I don't miss out on any enjoyable social occasions.
I use FDs to give me valuable extra time for relaxing / gym / chores.

A longterm WOL should not make life more difficult or decrease joy

btw, I didn't realise until afterwards how socially isolated I had become during my several years strict low carbing - that can happen if you are the only one who can never join in a normal healthy meal.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2016 07:22

Welcome, Wheelie Smile

If your TDEE is over 2000, you can take up to 25% of that on your FD.
Most people take a couple of weeks for their body & mind to get used to fasting
With a high TDEE, you should be able to lose a useful amount of lb & inches in those 7 weeks.
Just eat sensible meals on NFDs NO snacking between meals - and keep to nhs alcohol guidelines

On FDs, its easier to skip breakfast and have all your calories for supper, but some prefer lunch & supper, or Mosely's system of breakfast & supper, especially with 600 cals to split.
On NFDs, some people like breakfast, but many have found it makes them hungrier later, so they skip it or push it gradually later.
You could try Mosely's breakfast & supper system for NFDs too, maybe just have coffee / tea for lunch and enjoy the extra time for something else.

However, I recommend against a big breakfast the day after an FD:
especially when starting, it can upset your stomach having a large amount of food as the first meal to break your fast.

OP posts:
DakotaFanny · 04/09/2016 09:44

Hi guys,

So I'm two weeks in and 5 fds. Last week I lost 3 lbs!!! This week I gained a tiny bit. This is totally normal, right?

Thanks

heyday1 · 04/09/2016 09:50

Perfectly normal. Weight does go up and down a little but as long as you keep losing overall, that is what counts.

I find the tracker useful on the fast diet website so you can track your changes.

Also are you taking measurements of your waist, inches etc? You may lose inches but not weight sometimes

DakotaFanny · 04/09/2016 10:05

No I haven't done measurements but I do feel a bit trimmer so should definitely do that. Good tip, thanks!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2016 10:14

Don't worry, Dakota
Weight naturally fluctuates a couple of lb (and several lb for some women at totm):
undigested food, temporary water retention due to a previous high carb day or hard exercise, hornomal swings etc

So this can easily hide say a 1lb fat loss

It's fine to weigh weekly or even daily, but what is significant is the trend over every 3 weeks or so: that should be downards because it's enough time to smooth out blips.

Also check your waist & hips / clothes fit. As heydey says, sometimes the scales take a while to catch up with lost fat inches.

OP posts:
househuntinginmanchester · 04/09/2016 14:33

Just checking in!

Yday was supposed to be a fast day but who was I kidding? Grin

Today can't be either as its a wedding and yummy food on the menu... Although I will eat sensible because I just did my measurements and I'm one inch down on the hips and two inches down on the waist so now a 28 inch waist and 35 inch hips whoop whoop Grin happy days !

OliveBranchCollins · 04/09/2016 16:02

Well done House

superking · 04/09/2016 18:06

Hi, just looking for a bit of advice please! I am about to start 5:2. Have done it successfully in the past, but I am breastfeeding this time . I know that on fast days I should not have more than 1000 cals, but am a bit confused about what I should be averaging at on NFDs. Should I add an extra 500 cals a day to my TDEE to take account of breastfeeding? Grateful for any help.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2016 19:27

Hi Superking The extra allowance for BF is just the 1000-cal FDs
If you are not EBF you can optionally reduce gradually to 700-cals
The NFDs are unchanged, i.e. aim for TDEE, no extra allowance

Congrats on your inches NSV, House That's lost bodyfat. That's a v healthy waist measurement

OP posts:
Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 04/09/2016 20:37

Thanks for this. I don't have any scales so don't know how much I weigh! ( not helpful but do by clothes(. I'm going to try an egg for breakfast tomorrow and then on Wednesday no breakfast as it's the first day of school and likely to be rushed anyway

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 04/09/2016 20:38

Then I can see which is hest

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 04/09/2016 20:38

Best (obs)Smile

househuntinginmanchester · 04/09/2016 22:16

Thanks bigchoc and olive 

Got back from the wedding and settled the dc in bed, first day back to school tomorrow and FD for me! I won't have time to eat breakfast in the morning anyway and I'll be sitting in with little dd at nursery so most of the morning will be taken up with that, then I'm going straight to mil as we need to go somewhere so hopefully will have a late late boiled egg for breakfast/lunch and then dinner. The wedding was amazing, and the food was very good indeed  but back to a good fast day tomorrow 

Welcome super !

stripeyzebra32 · 05/09/2016 07:44

Greetings from turkey.

I've been pretty well behaved so far.
The day we flew out I had a mini fast as I was so busy until we got on the plane and had a light option sandwich .

BCF may be able to offer assistance here I asked my mum as she's German and she doesn't know.
We are in a continental hotel and the food is mainly catered for the Germans I'm happy as I adore German food. Lots of the salads are pre made with beans / lentils had a stunning smoked salmon one with onions that I put on a peice of dark German bread. Would the salads be calorific? There is no signs up to say what they are so I have been taking a tiny spoon of each to try with some cheeses and cold cuts of meat and if I like it going back.

Not over eating at all but my downfall is Turkish puddings they are beautiful but only allowing myself them at tea time.

I may get weighed today as its opp D day and I'm guessing they will need it for the general anesthesia.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2016 09:13

Sounds delicious , Stripey
Most of us relax a lot about food on holiday, but if you want a rough guide :
Salad, smoked salmon, onions, beans, lentils - all brilliantly healthy and good for your blood sugar.
A slice of dark german bread is probably rye or pumpernickel, good nourishing ingredients & fibre

All sounds excellent holiday food, probably much more filling and lower cal than the volume of cheese & cold cuts that would make a meal
Re those puddings - each could have the cals of a plate of German bean salad, but without the nutrients.

After your teeth op, if you can't manage solid food, try to enjoy lots of nourishing soups (chicken & veg etc) , plain yoghurts etc.
The doctors should be able to advise what won't hurt your mouth.
So long as you don't mainline ice cream, puds & wine afterwards, you should be fine

Good luck with your op and have a quick recovery Flowers

OP posts:
jingscrivvens · 05/09/2016 09:57

Morning everyone, I am crawling back here after a weekend of excesses. Enjoyed myself at the time but have such guilt about it all esp since I had a rubbish week last week with only 1 FD and a mini FD done. Didn't weight myself so dread the scales come Wed. The only good thing I did was a 6 mile walk to go and watch the Tour of Britain yesterday.
But nevermind, it's done and the only thing I can do is get back on it which I am today.

Good luck with op today Stripey!

doineedhelp · 05/09/2016 10:09

morning everyone, Sunday FD didn't go exactly as planned (oops) more like a mini-FD but was out all day in the Lake District so options were limited.

NFD today, then FD tomorrow and Thursday. Trying hard today not to eat in between meals (even if it is healthy stuff)

Good luck any Monday fasters :)

CeciledeVolanges · 05/09/2016 10:34

Thanks for the answer and the article, BigChoc, as informative as ever :)

superking · 05/09/2016 10:50

BigChoc thanks for replying so quickly, means I have no excuse to procrastinate and can get started today! 1000 calories seems like luxury compared to 500!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2016 10:54

Good luck with no snacking, need It is one of the most useful daily habits for weight management.
Enjoy a big glass of refreshing water between meals, instead of a snack.
Maybe fancy it up with a nice glass, straw, ice cubes, a slice of lemon.

Just move on, Jing and focus on your next FD.
Choose the most suitable day, plan your menu in advance. Drink lots of water.
Weigh after your 2nd FD, so you have a chance to get rid of weekend bloat

All that's really banned on our 5:2 WOL are shame & guilt

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2016 10:58

Good luck on your 1st FD, Superking
Plan the full day in advance, maybe starting with 3 meals. Base them on protein, plus masses of different veg / salad and add a small portion of complex carbs or potato.
Dedinitely lots of water for you

OP posts:
CeciledeVolanges · 05/09/2016 11:06

Nice to read about everyone's SVs and NSVs. Good luck to those fasting today :)
I was away over the weekend - lots of opportunity to practise not snacking but the food was very high calorie. My flight back was delayed for ages so I'm exhausted today and not even going to try an FD, I will aim for tomorrow instead.

OliveBranchCollins · 05/09/2016 12:15

Hi I'm fasting today, my routine is changing up.
So Mondays I'll be at college 9 till 2 so it will be an easy fast. Work Tuesday and Thursday and on placement Wednesday and Friday. Ill stick to my Saturday FDs as they will still be flatout trying to catch up days.

knowler · 05/09/2016 13:26

Hi all, FD for me today; saving all cals for this evening when I'm having a big mozzarella salad.

I am hungry now, but the biggest challenge seems to be breaking the habit of eating at set times. I always try to have a proper break at lunchtime from work and eating has until now been a big part of that. Today, I'm looking at some fab new clothes I've bought and had delivered to work and will also have a very short stroll outside for some vit D. Any other tips for distracting yourself at usual mealtimes?