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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2014 22:07

B&W In answer to your query about progressing with your cardio HIIT:

OK, you currently do 3 sets of 30 secs with 20 secs recovery. I'd be cautious about shortening your recovery at this stage. Instead:

. I suggest adding another set say every 6-8 weeks, until you reach 8 sets, which is a typical number for an HIIT grouping.
. Also, very other week swap 2 of the sets for a long set of 60 secs with 40 sec recovery. This adds variety.

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 06/11/2014 18:37

Very interesting BigChoc. If you read all the élite runners they talk about the importance of rest after a big race. !understand why it is so important now, and something I need to pay more attention to in future.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2014 09:30

Just to let everyone know we have a new Main IF / 5:2

Thread48

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 15/11/2014 21:36

Tks for the advice, BC!

I'm definitely doing more in my stints - I count alternate steps and I've increased these by around 10% since I began.

There was an article in yesterday's DM (that's the Daily Mirror, Wink of course!) about tooth decay in top distance runners. Initially it was thought that it was an excess of energy drinks - turns out to be the excess acid in saliva produced on long runs.

I'll see if I can't dig it out.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2014 00:09

How to look good naked:

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 17/11/2014 16:44

So true BigChoc. Even with a few kilos over target (cough) a fit body still beats a skinny saggy one!

BetsyBell · 18/11/2014 09:02

Aww, I fell off the thread again! Clearly I've been too busy exercising to post Grin

How's everyone doing with the transitioning to exercising in colder weather/fewer daylight hours? It's playing havoc with my running group outings as it's so hard to find a time we can all run when it gets dark at 4.30 due to childcare issues. I definitely find it harder to get motivated when it's cold, gloomy and damp. We've started doing fitness dvds together instead, which is cheap, cheerful and fun to do in a group. It does mean occasional toe stubbing when failing to avoid the lounge furniture though!

Exciting news for me - I'm helping set up a kid's version of our TaeKwonDo club and I will be assistant instructor. Grin Grin

jellypi3 · 18/11/2014 09:10

Does anyone have any suggestions for exercise for me. I'm not allowed to put any strain on my left foot (I have a cyst and multiple bursa's between my toes that are being treated by physio). I've asked what exercise I can do and have been told none. I'm used to playing football (how I got the injury) and was going to start the C25k but can't until my foot is better. Can't go swimming according to the physio, so all I have been doing is cycling on my exercise bike (normally between 5-10k) aiming for 3 times a week.

Any other suggestions? :)

Anglaise1 · 18/11/2014 10:44

Betsy that'll be such good fun being a kid's instructor! I'd love to do something like that (other than teaching kids English which is all I'm deemed fit to do in France)
Regarding running, can't you run in the dark? Our club still has outings in the winter on Tuesday evenings (we all have florescent jackets and headlamps) and I run in the morning in the dark sometimes. Regarding the cold, damp and wind - I much prefer running in those conditions than in hot sunshine. And you feel even more worthy when you finish your run due to adverse conditions Wink But I am and addict.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2014 14:29

That's great news Betsy
My cycle journey to the gym is less pleasant in winter, but once I'm there, the season is irrelevant, of course. I love cycling with the sun on my back, but I grit my teeth and go to the gym unless there is a lot of snow or ice.

Jelly You can exercise your upper body with weights:
Benchpress, triceps press, forward raise, bentover row ......
Also, you can work your abs:
Situps both straight and angled, leg raises.

Probably best to avoid pressups or plank, as quite a lot of pressure can be on your toes

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2014 14:36

Jelly If you are unsure about the exercises, I can post links to videos and also suggest a program, if you like.

OP posts:
jellypi3 · 19/11/2014 11:07

Thanks BC, I think I know what most of those are, I'll give them a go. 3 times a week ideally yeah?

Can't wait for my foot to finally be better!!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2014 12:51

Yes, Jelly All the "threes": 3 times per week and select a weight with which you can just manage 3 sets of 8-10 reps; it should feel tough, not easy.

OP posts:
CrockedPot · 19/11/2014 21:29

Hi, I've just read this entire thread and am so inspired! I found it through the link on 5:2, which I am starting on Monday. I have been slowly putting on weight over the last few months and am determined to stop now so that 10lb doesn't become a stone and so on.
I do yoga every week and have a sadly neglected gym membership. I love running but have recently injured my back. I am having physio and though I have some limitations (no running or swimming for a while) I am determined to get back into exercise and get leaner and fitter. Any suggestions for where to start, given that I need to be careful of my lower back for a few weeks at least!?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2014 22:25

Welcome to IF / 5:2, crockpot
Smile
Your lower back injury rules out most strength training for upper & lower body or abs, but see if you can manage some cardio, especially HIIT.

Ideas:
. Spin classes - you can adjust resistance according to your fitness
. Zumba
. Walking intervals - say 2 mins brisk uphill, 20 secs normal speed, repeat x 8 - either treadmill or outside
. Swimming intervals - crawl or backstroke would be much easier on the back than breast stroke
. A few mins rope skipping, at gym or home

Also, do join us for FD & NFD support on the MainThread48

OP posts:
CrockedPot · 20/11/2014 16:04

Thanks - all do-able suggestions. I will head on over to the other thread,really looking forward to getting started!

BetsyBell · 21/11/2014 11:28

Anglaise What I love about running is being distracted by lovely/interesting scenery so night running doesn't appeal sadly - BUT one of my buddies does it so I expect she'll rope me into it at some point. I'm easily led when it comes to exercise! We have plans for an early morning run but it's been derailed by me getting yet another cold - the perils of working in a primary school (though I'm grateful it's not the sick bug that's running rampant though the building...)

My first love is definitely the taekwondo and it pains me when I have to miss a session. Running I enjoy but I'm definitely not an addict!

Anglaise1 · 22/11/2014 08:50

Betsy I know your passion Taekwondo. It is difficult finding the time to do two sports, hats off to you for having a go at running too! I'd love to do a little cross training with cycling or something and it would do me good. But I don't really have time as I don't want to sacrifice any of my running sessions - 4 times a week is limit for improving my time as it is.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2014 11:52

Anglaise I think any extra training you do should be upper body, Big Hirls or weights. Any more cardio like cycling etc might be overload for your system.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2014 11:52

Big Girls

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 26/11/2014 20:44

A little light reading for y'all
www.lesmills.com/knowledge/fitness-research/the-science-of-yoga

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2014 21:23

That's interesting, Tip
Yoga is unlnown territory for me - not enough violence
Grin

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 26/11/2014 21:28

LOL
One of my gym friends does BodyAttack followed by Yoga
Another morning she does FightKlub followed by Yoga

power yoga is lots of "bodyweight" work - slower than is normally your style, but great for flexibility and postural muscles

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2014 21:40

Another interesting article is in SportsMd about
Weight, Body Fat, Athletic Performance

Studies show people (in the west) lose muscle and gain fat from age 20.
Even those who maintain a steady weight will have increasing body fat % and decreasing muscle - unless they exercise frequently.

A woman can greatly improve athletic performance if she reduces her body fat from say 30% to 15%, but very little improvement after that.
Also, 12-15% is the essential body fat range, below which a woman may experience health problems, e.g. no periods, loss of bone density, more infections.
Essential body fat for men is 3-5%

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 29/11/2014 02:30

Hi folks

Thought I'd report back on my new exercise regime:

I didn't do any weight bearing exercises for 6 weeks, due to first of all a strained (or sprained? Who knows?) shoulder, although I still continued with HIIT, followed by severe pain in my right glute. It was indeed a pain in the arse!

Both problems finished up being actually muscle spasms - which my son sorted out by applying pressure in the affected muscle. First the glute pain which was banished - almost instantaneously by sitting on a rolling pin periodically. The shoulder problem was sorted similarly by pressing hard with the muscle on my wardrobe door!

I resumed my exercises quite gingerly - sets of 5 press-ups instead of 20 weighted (8kg) ones, 2 chin-ups instead of the 5 I was doing earlier. And I went back to my 6kg kettlebell in place of my 9kg - and only doing sets of 5 reps initially.

I now do my body weights on Mon, Wed and Fri; and swing my kb around on Tue, Thurs and Sat - with a day off on Sunday.

I'm gradually building back up - I've doubled my starting numbers, and I'm adding one extra rep each time, except for the chin-ups. I'm concentrating on getting the technique right for those, so I'm still on 2 reps - but I start from right down, unlike before when I started with my arms bent.

Already, 10 days in, I'm starting to feel the benefit, and it feels good to be back in the routine.

It'll take me a couple of months to get back to where I was, but I'm in no hurry - I'll get there eventually.

BTW, I'm up to 4 sets of HIIT and loving it. I count every other step in that 30 seconds, and initially I used to average about 70. Now my average is 80+, so the exercise is more intense but I don't breathe any heavier, nor is my pulse rate any greater.

Oh, I think I said my lung capacity had increased by 10% over the last year - but I got the actual figures last week. These showed an increase of just over 5% - from 3.65 litres in August 2013 to 3.85 earlier this month. I'm very pleased with that, especially since the

PREDICTED FVC FOR MALES (KNUDSON, ET AL), for a 65-yr-old is:

3.72!

That's for 'normal' males - that is, those without COPD.

So hurray to BC - and all the others who encouraged me to start serious exercising (just) 12 months ago.

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