5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

• 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
• 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

• By far the best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward

• keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
• Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

Thanks for your update B&W, it is fantastic that you have kept up with the exercise and are finding it so beneficial.
Interesting link on body fat and athletic performance, BigChoc. it is true that when altheletes lose weight it is too easy to do it incorrectly and lose muscle instead of fat. It is better to modify diet by eating the correct food and above all do it gradually. I've just read Matt Atkinson's Racing Weight which is very interesting with tips on how to find your ideal weight for performance, what to eat to achieve it and example food consumption of different endurance athletes (runners, cyclists and rowers).
I have a 10k race tomorrow and it xill be the first race I can compare year on year performance. I so hope I do a better time as know that I have less fat and more muscle than this time last year, 15% down from 23%. I'm going to try eating beetroot before the race as studies have suggested this can increase your performance by 3% (equal to 1 minute 30 secs off my usual time). I'll report back - I love beetroot but I've never eaten it for breakfast before so that wil be a challenge

Good to hear you are back in the swing B&W
That's a very sensible buildup which will you enable you to regain your previous fitness level.
Right now, I'm picturing you sitting on a (horizontal) rolling pin !

You should be very proud of your achievements, especially the lung capacity improvements. You've earned them with all your hard work.

Good luck for your race tomorrow, Anglaise Do let us know how your time changes from a year ago. Also if you notice any difference in your recovery.

I'm another beetroot lover, such a delic, healthy, versatile veg. So, I'd be interested to hear if you notice a difference in energy levels.
Breakfast maybe with wholegrain bread, baked goats cheese and horseradish sauce.

More About Body Fat
3 types of fat:
. visceral (around the organs) - potentially dangerous
. subcutaneous (under the skin)
. intramuscular (in between muscle, like a marbled steak).

The amount of subcutaneous body fat you have may stay the same, but the visceral and intramuscular fat may increase as you age.

Without access to a lab, you can estimate your total body fat, but not reliably how much of each type.

FitWiki discusses all the available ways to measure body fat:
Scales that claim to give body fat can vary wildly, e.g. at different times of day, moisture on feet.
Calipers are difficult to use and even when done by a gym, are no more accurate than calculators.

Available calculators, e.g. Everything Calculator which also provides BMI, Height:Weight ratio.
(Ignore the advice in the link about daily calorie restriction, but read what they say about body fat)
Once you know your Body Fat %, this BodyFatChart shows if you are in the healthy range for your age or over /underweight etc

Well my 10k didn't really go as well as I hoped, I ended up with 47:58 which is exactly 90 seconds MORE than the same 10k a year ago. In a way I'm glad as I never ever want to eat 200g of beetroot for breakfast again, but I'm disappointed as I train an awful lot more now and expected better. Conditions were excellent so no excuse there, I think I just have to blame myself for increased in time which is probably due to the extra 2 - 3 kgs I'm carrying compared to this time last year . I was 7th out of 116 in my category of Veteran Female 2 and I was a lot faster than some of my younger club girlfriends (54 mins) so it isn't all bad news.
I'm going to do another 10k in a fortnight (the same as one I did last year) to see if I can do better there. One thing I do know, I much prefer trail racing through forests and mud to road running against the clock. The two aren't really very compatible.

Anglaise Sub-50 is just a dream for most middle-aged club runners !
You were still high up the veterans score table.

Weight is a very crude metric - Do you know your waist measurement then, as a rough guide to % fat ?
If you want to lose weight, do so slowly and carefully, so you retain all yoir muscle.

Also, you've been doing a lot of longer distances and trail runs this year, which means your muscles and cardiovascualr system are geared to a range of longer distances and types of run, rather than being optimised for 10k or 5k.
I.e maybe you have become more of an endurance runner.

Your next 10k will indicate if this is your current 10k pace, or maybe just that today things didn't quite gell.

Stopped for some LPG at Podimore svcs on the A303, on the way home after a terrific day's breadmaking in Castle Cary.

I skipped to the door of the petrol station (as is my wont - plus I was on a high from the session), and the attendant was all smiles, "You look pretty fit," says he. I responded with something like, "Well you know…I do try."

Then he said, "Did you used to be an athlete, or something?" [smuggit]

I should have said, "Yup, still am, as a matter of fact!" But instead we fell into a conversation about fasting. He was a Moslem, and knew all about the health benefits of fasting.

Athlete Bread Maker - love it

TiP! Crazy, isn't it?

"Did you used to be an athlete, or something?"
What a compliment! And you are still B&W
One of the guys in my club has just turned 70 and he ran the 10k race I did yesterday in 52 minutes. It's possible to be an althlete well into old age (health permitting of course).
I'm not feeling too bad about my race BigChoc, in the end I was 28th woman out of 620 so comfortably in the top 5%.
I checked my measurements and yes, they are bigger so it isn't just the weight gain.
I'm in no way overweight but it would be nice to lose those 2-3 pesky kilos as I'm sure they are slowing me down. Not sure I can cope with 2 fast days a week. Maybe one fast day and cut out the wine and almonds (I've been getting through a kg a week, lots of calories!

B&W Breadmaker, athlete, man about town ! Great compliment.

Those who avoid serious illness or accidents can maintain fitness into their 80s and 90s - I've read about several in marathons or lifting, which is very encouraging. I originally came to IF by reading about hormesis wrt healthy aging.

Anglaise Be proud of your achievement; it was pretty damn good.

You have quite a low BMI, bit I agree runners perform best when carrying as little weight as possible. Already lean women athletes especially need to prioritise health and only very slowly lose the final few lb of fat.
I think one FD per week is plenty and you could try 700-800 cals. Alternatively, 2 x 1000-cal mini-FDs.

I was thinking that as well as your maybe being more of an endurance athlete now, your earlier iron deficiency could have had a lknock-on effect:
Although it no longer affects your health, your body was running on insufficient jron for months, so maybe still building ip to its peak.

BigChoc thanks for your advice - I'm going to do a couple of 1000 day fasts. That should be enough to lose the weight sensibly. My TDEE is rarely under 2000 and on running days quite a lot more. I've signed up for another 10k on 13th Dec and to give me extra motivation to lose weight I'm using MFP to log all food intake. It is a PITA and I couldn't do it long term but it is helps you focus on what you eat and when you eat it. I found something interesting on almonds - if you eat too many (and I have been) it can result in a vitamin E overdose, some of the symptoms are blurred vision and diarrhea both of which I've been suffering from recently. www.md-health.com/Eating-Too-Many-Almonds.html
Re the iron - I take an supplement daily now, just to be on the safe side!

Hello folks, it's been a while since I've been on here!

Struggling to fit in my exercise classes, so I've now signed up to a personal trainer, 2 sessions per week.

Had 3 sessions so far and there's been a lot of emphasis on technique. We worked the chest yesterday and I'm exceptionally stiff today!

A personal trainer can be very motivating - you have to train or you've wasted that money !
A good PT can suggest personalised routines and correct any technique errors.

Hey everyone! I've been very absent from these threads and very absent from fasting, aside from very occasional 16:8. I'm in full-on training mode again for my next TKD grading on Saturday, but after that there will be a training hiatus and Christmas holidays so am going to get a few fasts in then, or at least some regular 16:8s.

B&W KUDOS! You've worked hard for those comments.

My instructor and I have become each other's personal trainers/motivating buddy - we've done well at getting out for early morning runs and evening home or gym sessions but in the new year it's going to level up - she wants me to come to a taekwondo class that she goes to as well as the 3 sessions a week that she runs for us! We're also starting to learn jujitsu. It's all so much fun!

Needless to say, with all of that and avoiding sugar on week days, I have not had any issues with weight gain despite not fasting. But I do want the health benefits so need to find a way to weave some back in.

Relative newbie to this forum.

I walk 25k-30k per week, so I get good amount of cardio in. As soon as I recover from my fall I'm going to introduce the faster intervals BigChoc recommended to get a little more bang for my buck there.

It's that time of year when it comes to making New Year's Resolutions. I like to make them fun because they're easier to stick to then. I've always wanted to do olympic weightlifting. It seems like something I could do from a physical point of view, there's health benefits to it, beginner courses near me, and most importantly it could make me feel strong. I always feel weak because of my health condition and I'm fed up feeling weak.

There's no problem doing it with my condition, I've checked. But I'm quite heavy and worried the instructors will think I'm crazy. I need to lose 80 lbs just to have a BMI of 25. Should I lose the weight first, and focus on other exercises? I can't run, play contact sports or cycle so I'm kind of limited.

In my head I have a vision of how I want to be in two years time (my deadline as I'll be 30) and I think weightlifting (not bulking) will get me there and it looks fun and there's presumably a sense of achievement in getting to lift more, there's a change in intensity. I think it's best to start now so my diet and exercise change together, but maybe I'm wrong.

I know little about these things, which is why I'm venturing onto this thread! Any advice greatly received.

Sorry for the essay.

Welcome, Christina
With an extra 80lb on your joints, you would do better with very low impact exercises, to avoid injury. So no running or jumping yet, also no martial arts, Zumba or step.

Since you mention instructors, I gather you would join / have joined a gym. Well done.

Just to reassure you, noone will laugh:
The gym staff always repect anyone who has paid a subscription, because that pays their wages.
Other gym members are only interested in improving their own fitness, not looking at you.

My recommendations:

. Start as soon as you feel better after your fall, with 2-3 classes per week and build up.

. Do NOT eat back exercise calories; people and gadgets always over-estimate cals burnt. Just keep exercise cals as extra fat-burning deficit.

. Do spin classes for cardio. They are very easy on joints and back, while being good for fat-burning. You set your own degree of difficulty via the resistance and you can rest by pedalling slowly. Many classes are quite HIIT.

. Do pump or weight-lifting classes, always with at least 1 day rest or cardio between weight classes. The instructors will correct your lifting technique if need be. Tell them you want to lift heavier weights rather than aerobically swinging tiny girlie pink weights like a demented hamster !

I always recommend including the classic lifts to build the main muscle groups (hindquarters, shoulders), which burn the most energy, so: pressups, squats, deadlifts, plus whatever else they offer

Do post and tell us how you are doing.

That's brilliant Betsy You have created your new lifestyle, with fitness and nutrition at its core. Be very proud of how far you have come.
Your TKD instructor sounds an ideal fitness buddy and obviously rates you highly.
Good luck for your grading on Saturday. Pics with the new belt, pretty please

Of course BCF. In the meantime I've popped a picture of me in my sparring gear which I think you'll appreciate :)

Sorry, Betsy Your profile says "can't find that licture"

picture < curses IOS 8 and Apple >

Hmm, no reason why it shouldn't show up. Meh.

Yay, Betsey! You look pretty fierce to me - I think I'll stay out of your way!

What colour will replace the green belt?

You're doing fantastic - you'll probably be an instructor yourself one day.

Just as I think BC should be!

Good luck for tomorrow, Anglaise. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

B&W Sooner than you think - I'm setting up a kids version of the club in which I'll be assistant instructor, starting January! Marking one year since I started Tae Kwon Do

I'm going for my purple belt today. My personal fitness challenge of 25 knuckle press ups has been completed, I've done many hours of training and I'm ready!

Hope your 10k goes well today Anglaise