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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
ErrolTheDragon · 02/04/2014 14:28

piece - would it work if you did your sprint length then just stopped, squished in the corner of the lane, to get your breath back? (When I swim I always alternate crawl and breast stroke but because my legs are much stronger than my arms, the former feels like high intensity and the latter recovery but remarkably little difference in speed!)

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2014 20:38

Video is back at the bottom of the OP, the one that kept saying "not available" - is available again
Confused
(You asked about this, Betsy ) anyway, it reminds us about Hand Release Pressups / XFit pressups

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 02/04/2014 22:12

And on that note BCF, thanks to your xfit press ups, I can now proudly announce that today I managed 10 big girl press ups in a row! Yay!

I would like to be able to get a bit lower than I currently do, so that's my next target.

My DH has picked up the fitness bug so we're driving each other on - especially as he's doing his press ups every day (40 odd Envy ) and I've been a bit of a slacker. Managed to pull 10 out the bag after being impressed by my 7 year old DSs press up efforts this evening!

Nothing like a bit of healthy, household competition Grin

Breadandwine · 03/04/2014 00:21

I would like to be able to get a bit lower than I currently do

Betsy, I take it you're not doing the xfit press ups? They're the ones I've been doing, since I can't quite get down as far as I'd like with the normal ones. But from now on I'll start each set with a few 'normal' press ups, then finish the 20 with xfit ones. Gradually, I'll build up the normal ones until that's all I do.

BetsyBell · 03/04/2014 07:28

It's a good point b&w - I need to alternate rounds of each as I'd originally planned. Thanks for the reminder Smile

ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2014 10:33

Well done Betsy - how low are you getting? (I'm Envy of you!)

BetsyBell · 03/04/2014 11:18

Errol by the 6th or 7th I'm probably barely getting down at all BUT if I'm bending my arms, even a bit, then hauling myself back up and it is a huge effort then I figure it's doing some good. B&W is absolutely right though, I should do the xfit ones AS WELL. So tonight I'll try 5 xfit, then 5 normals and repeat x2. I'll work my way from there and see how I go.

But it really is consistency that's key - if I actually bothered to do it everyday, rather than some days a week, I'd be improving much faster.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2014 11:45

Betsy, B&W I recommend a set of Xfit pressups as warm-up, then some sets of full pressups, finishing with another set of Xfit.

Within my pressup workout, I also add a set each of 4 variants: narrow arm, crab, diamond hands, one hand on medicine ball .
These are even tougher than Big Girl ones, if you need more of a challenge.
Smile
My trainer advised me against building up to plyometric, one-armed pressups or handstand pushups - they are so tough, he sees even really good young male bodybuilders keep getting injured with them.
I said my aim was maximum fitness with minimum injury risk

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2014 11:48

To practice getting really low on the narrow arm pressups, I have an initial set with hands on a very low bar.

This enables me to go all the way down, to get the full range of muscle movement and hopefully comprehensively build that muscle group.
It certainly feel as if I'm working something extra

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2014 11:50

I'm still baffled by how anyone manages the up part of the xfit ones, starting from prone! I've started a different tack on my course towards BGPUs ... which is to try to do them (novel concept, huh?). I'm starting with 3 cushions under my chest area - so I can tell how far down I'm going (but they yield so I can't cheat and press back up off them). 3 sets of 10 today. Onwards and downwards! Grin

Breadandwine · 03/04/2014 15:58

Two weeks or so ago, I graduated from 3 sets of daily exercise to 4 sets - both kettlebell and weight-bearing (on alternate days). And this morning I purchased the kb upgrade I've been promising myself for when I reached this level.

I did envisage going from a 3kg kb to a 5kg - only to discover that they were only sold in multiples of 3kg. So, to my surprise, I've come away with a 6kg kettlebell!

I've had a tentative go at swinging it around and manhandling it, and decided that, not wishing to strain anything, I'll drop down to half (ten) or even a quarter (five) of the number of times I carry out an exercise, and build up from there.

I've been complimented on my improved physique in recent weeks, and, just this morning, I was told that my posture was much better nowadays!

Another change to my routine is that instead of carrying out 20 reps of my press ups - which, up to now have been xfit ones (where you lie on the floor and push yourself up - taking your hands off the floor each time) - I'll try and do several proper press ups, lowering myself down as far as I can, but not touching the floor, first. Then gradually increase those over the coming weeks.

My long-term goal is to beat my very fit son in the number of press ups in a minute. I'm hoping that, since he doesn't know he's in a competition, I'll take him by surprise - and whop his arse! Grin

Breadandwine · 03/04/2014 16:13

Thanks, BCF - duly noted!

Which leads me to a question:
Up to now, my routine has been - 15 pull ups, 20 press ups, 60 secs plank; 2 minutes rest, then repeat 3 times.

But you seem to be saying that you do one specific exercise and then repeat however many times. So 4 sets of pull ups, 4 sets of press ups, 4 sets of plank. Is that right? And how long do you leave between sets?

Well done, Errol! A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step! (Or a single press up! Grin)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2014 19:50

B&W When moving to a higher weight or tougher form of an exercise, it is usual to reduce the number of reps per set and the total number of reps.
So, fewer reps with your shiny new 6kg bell and fewer Big Girl pressups than XFit ones.
Smile
Lifting, Strength Routines
The convention is to do all the sets for one exercise, with breaks, then move to the next.
The idea is to stress a particular muscle group fully before moving to the next.

I only know of circuit training where there is a series of different exercises in turn, which are then repeated.
However, circuit training is usually HIIT plus some strength training.

So, try the conventional way of strength training and see how you get on.
I suggest at least a 2 minute break between different exercises, but do take more if you need to.

Remember to let each muscle group rest at least one day. Muscles need work and then time to repair.
E.g. don't do sets of pressups or pullups more often than every other day.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2014 20:02

BC - (obviously) I'm no expert but don't some people train like B&W was and call it 'supersets'?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2014 20:03

Betsy Your first set of 10. You'll be amazed how soon you can add another set, then do sets of 15, then 20 ....
Flowers
Errol I think you need to do more plank, because as I mentioned the main trick with pressups is keeping the abs rigid:
Aim to make your body one rigid line throughout the pressup, with support points at hands and toes, hinging only at shoulders and elbows to move up and down.
If you are not already doing so, I suggest planking every other day, say 2 x 45 secs, or whatever will stretch you.

Betsy, Errol Do you want to set yourself pressup challenges, e.g. add an additional 1-2 per week of your favourite pressup flavour ?

B&W Lovely to hear you are receiving compliments on your figure.
Careful, the gang on the main thread will be demanding topless photos soon.
Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2014 20:16

Errol I started lifting with "supersets" too, not knowing any better.
However, I found I progressed better once I learned of the conventional way.
I haven't seen any good lifters at my various gyms doing supersets, so I can't judge its effectiveness.

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 03/04/2014 20:20

So I just did 10 xfit, 5 big girls, 5 xfit, 5 big girls and now I hurt. My energy levels are still so inconsistent that my main target is still just doing them and getting better at it. When it starts feeling easy I'll add more. The xfit ones are just as tiring as the bgs but in a different way.

But the muscles that hurt are all the right ones so just got to keep doing it and get stronger. I consider press ups to be to the equivalent of lifting most of my body weight so surely the most effective bit of weight lifting that can be achieved at home with little equipment.

Might try and do another set in a minute...

ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2014 22:07

BC - you're right about the planks - I was doing quite a lot and was making steady progress till I hurt my back the other week, which has made me cautious. However, I started again this week, and 2x45 sec forearm planks was exactly what I did today (in addition to the Ripped in 30 which has some plank-based moves, but on hands which is easier). Smile

My aim is to do more/work lower.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2014 22:11

Well done Betsy!

Breadandwine · 04/04/2014 11:41

My new kettlebell - plus grippers and table tennis bat.

U3A TT for two hours this afternoon - highlight of the week!

Well done, Betsy and Errol - we'll get there!

(Don't know where we're going - but BC'll tell us when we're there! Grin)

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
ErrolTheDragon · 04/04/2014 12:09

U3A TT - is that University of the Third Age Table Tennis? Cool.

That's just reminded me of something - can't remember what I read or heard that made me wonder this, but does anyone think that this WOL (the IF and exercise) is particularly well suited to the more chronologically gifted? (or are we just so damned pleased with ourselves that we're still active that we talk about it more)Wink

Breadandwine · 04/04/2014 13:24

U3A TT - is that University of the Third Age Table Tennis?

Sure is - those guys are seriously good, and some of them are older than me! I'll send down what I think is a killer smash, say - and the ball keeps coming back!

We only play doubles, so that everyone gets a game, it's a really good workout. I'll let you know how I get on - but I love it! Smile

Dumpyandabdabs · 04/04/2014 15:02

Hi, dropping in here from the main thread as I've kinda caught the exercise bug! Mainly do running and cycling outdoors 2 - 3 times a week at the moment but started a hiit class twice a week about 2 months ago.

Thinking about upping my resistance training on the fab advice of BC so DH offered to pop into town and get me some weights tomorrow when I'm at work. What is a good option to start with?

I was thinking of getting a kettlebell but I'm not sure what size to start with, I'm a bit of a weakling and the only resistance training I've done up until now is the odd press up and maybe trying to hold onto my 6 stone doberman when I take her out for a walk Wink, so any advice for a beginner would be good.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2014 17:11

Welcome, Dumpy. Good to see you here.
Smile
I think the most important equipment is a set of dumbells and / or a barbell with weights.
Try to avoid the pretty coloured girlie ones - they are embarassing !

Beginners can often improve quite quickly, which is why it I recommend getting the type where you can increase the weight by adding more discs as you progress.
This avoids buying dumbbells that are soon too light to stretch you.

Probably the best choice is something with a range of weights, like this dumbell and barbell set Argos
Your DH could load it with a higher weight than you and also work out.

Kettlebells are great if you can afford one as an addition, but NOT instead of the above. Dumbbells can substitute for kettles in exercises, but not vice versa.
If you want a kettle too, buy the lowest weight, say 2 kg.

Let us know what your DH brings you and also post about your training.
Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2014 17:15

Betsy We must go full blast with your pressups, if your DH and little DS are joining in. It's no longer just a matter of improving your upper body strength:

The honour of womanhood rides on your Big Girls !
Grin

OP posts: