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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Miffytastic · 18/03/2014 22:21

I think i do so... I know who does talk about it-Oprah! She talks about it a really old fitness book of hers (which is actually rather useful and inspiring even though she gained it back)

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 22:29

Hooray Eagle!

I don't weigh so don't know re monthly hikes, except I DO know...definitely, it feels like a good 5 or 6lbs on overnight which seems to vanish miraculously around day four. Flo's here now, clothes feel tight, cake irresistible, hands clumsy, brain foggy, DH unbearable, DCs monstrous, banging head, big spot on chin; lovely.

Am in a huff, my cake (which is usually, if I do say so myself, pretty amazing) was dense and dry! Wtf? Clumsy hands make crap cakes? Poured the juice of another orange over it now and it's much better but still...harrumph.

Have to decamp to MIL's house tomorrow to look after our cantankerous 98yr old granny for a week while MIL's on holiday...fabulous. Hope she like old cake.

Helliecopter · 18/03/2014 22:34

Well done overtiredmum that sounds like a fab day! Did you drink plenty throughout the day? What day will you do next?

CiderwithBuda · 18/03/2014 23:18

Cake sounds amazing. I love cake. Never make it as would just eat it all!

NFD here for me. Had planned roast veg with chorizo bits and feta for dinner but ended up with fish and chips! Had a 5pm apt with an orthopedic consultant about my dodgy knees. Thought it would be just a quick initial chat but ended up having X-rays and then going back to see him again so didn't get out until 6.20 and DS was at home starving. Got a large cod and a small chips between us. The fish wasn't great. Very greasy. So a big NSV and I didn't eat it all! I did have the chips and some mushy peas. All in all not too bad but really didn't enjoy it. Had a mini pack of malteasers watching tv.

Turns out knees are just old. And it's basically wear and tear. Losing weight was advised! He is referring me for physio to build up my quads to help the knees. Ultimately I am looking at a new knee but nt for a few years thankfully.

Sigh. This getting old business is not fun.

FD day again tomorrow. Taking car for service after school drop off and will walk home and then back again to pick it up.

SageYourResoluteOracle · 18/03/2014 23:21

Checking in for inspiration before my 2nd ever FD tomorrow. Well done everyone who started today!

There are some amazing success stories on here- they're really spurring me on.

Dakota: I must say that I can't imagine ever looking forward to a fast day but stranger things have happened. I s'pose I might get to the point where I enjoy the challenge. I'll see.

Night all!

LakeFlyPie · 18/03/2014 23:26

Oh no zed few things as disappointing as a cake fail

Thanks Eagle, have just realised I've booked a day off work on thursday to use up last day of annual leave. Have a provisional lunch date planned so may have to defer FD to friday. If lunch date doesn't happen I will do FD, planned haircut and shopping should provide adequate distraction.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/03/2014 23:27

Well done LakeFly - I find the shred/ripped absolutely fine on FDs, and also on the NFD after - I always do it before breakfast anyway. Just make sure you have plenty of liquid (including caffeine!).

The mushroom goulash sounds good.

Breadandwine · 19/03/2014 01:04

MrsF I wrote this yesterday in Word - then I lost it, and now I've found it again. Hope it's still relevant.

Thanks, MrsF. We all have a different story to tell, don't we?

I was once a big meat eater - I can remember, when we lived in Perth, WA, bringing home a large carrier bag full of meat for the week. Used to cost about $A5 for the whole bag, IIRC. And I was a great fan of cheese - the blue cheeses especially - and Roquefort, my absolute favourite.

When people tell me they could never become vegan I tell them I didn't go vegan until I was in my late 60s, so there's plenty of time for them! Grin

I agree that many current types of farming are unethical and unhealthy. And not at all sustainable.

That's another reason I could never go back, the future of this planet concerns me greatly.

Do you find it hard not to eat fish? Particularly wild fish/shellfish (what you could catch yourself)?

TBH, I feel more sorry for fish and shellfish than I do for mammals. Most die of suffocation, which is a horrible way to go.

Don't generally do this, but here's a video which may be of interest:

BC, green veg are a better source of calcium than dairy, you'd be interested to know.

"The calcium in dairy products is not as well absorbed as that in many dark green leafy vegetables (3). For example, calcium absorbability from kale was demonstrated to be considerably higher than that from cow’s milk (10)"

Source.

And Dumpy, I have several pizza toppings that don't include cheese. And I think there's a cauliflower pizza base recipe on the 5:2 recipe thread. Combine the two and you're onto a winner!

It's presently 1.00am, and I've just proved I'm incapable of transferring the leftover curry pie I had for dinner into the freezer without consuming a large slice of said pie and a glass of red! Sad

Grin
Lily311 · 19/03/2014 05:37

First fast day went well and I managed to be under 600 calories. But my oh my, yesterday was so hard (normal eating day), just wanted to eat and eat.is it like this after a fast day?? I try today my second fast today.

Boleh · 19/03/2014 05:53

That's really interesting breadandwine thanks - I'll check out the links later.

I'm never quite sure how to describe the way I eat other than 'fussy meat eater' in that I'll only eat meat that I know has been reared with high welfare standards and that hasn't been fed all sorts if unpleasant things like regular doses if antibiotics - in effect that means I'm a pescitarian where we currently live. I'm not so worried about the welfare of fish and invertebrates, however I am concerned about the sustainability of fishing. I agree that dairy and egg production is often nearly as bad as meat production but I just can't see my self going totally vegan.

That said when I'm living somewhere that I can buy sustainable fish and free range / local farm / organic eggs, dairy and meat I do so. I'd rather eat vegan a lot of the time and spend more money and time obtaining more ethical options for the non-vegan elements occasionally.

Interestingly since starting 5:2 more and more of my food, especially on fast days is becoming vegan.

Today is a NFD however and has certainly not been vegan - we had lunch at a meeting in work - the rice was fried with chicken so at least that wasn't an option but I stuffed myself with 8 big fried king prawns, a small amount of fish and plenty of steamed broccoli. When I put it in MFP it was over 600 cal and I'm so stuffed I feel slightly ill Sad - the prawns didn't look like a huge volume but apparently my body now knows what is more than enough even if my brain doesn't!

My trainer is unwell and has cancelled this evening but after my lunchtime effort I think I'd better get myself to the gym anyway.

Hi to all the newbies and congrats on all the successful FDs! Smile

Miffytastic · 19/03/2014 06:54

The scale still isn't moving Sad - stuck at 11-1 still. Bah!

cuggles · 19/03/2014 07:06

NFD here and I really need to get a grip on them and eat less..although extra hard as been away. Will start using mfp I think. Fd are actually ok so far.next one (Fourth) tomorrow. twelve weeks to holiday...wouls like to lose 12-14 lbs by then. good luck all fasters today

DakotaFanny · 19/03/2014 07:21

Fd here. Hungry now though......doesn't bode well. And I am grumpy already too. ??

Octopus37 · 19/03/2014 07:35

Have decided not to do a FD today, heavy period and feel slightly off, although could be making an excuse. Am determined have an FD tomorrow though. I'm another one who knows I am eating too much non NFD's, don't know how to stop it.

PrimalLass · 19/03/2014 07:38

Fd here. Hungry now though......doesn't bode well.

I was just about to post the same thing. It's gonna be a long day.

Cuggles my NFD was OTT yesterday too. Chocolate, crisps, wine, haggis.

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 07:45

Predictably enough, I ate a lot of (slightly crap) clementine cake...just before bed, so close to safe, bah!

And then again this morning a sliver jumped up and smuggled itself into my gob somehow while I was waiting for the kettle to boil.

Any day that starts with cake before 8am is doomed to be err... challenging.

I'll be glad when my totm has gone and the sugar monster disappears again, to be replaced by his more manageable cousin, general food monster who responds better to a stern tone.

Good luck all you Wed Fasters, munch wisely NFD-ers.

Labracadabra · 19/03/2014 07:52

Weight fluctuations are very strange! I've weighed myself the last 3 days (I know, I know) and I was 9st 13.5 on Monday, 9st 10.5 yesterday and 9st 9 this morning! Sat and Sun were NFDs, Monday was a FD and yesterday was a NFD. Monday and yesterday's weigh ins were first thing in the morning, naked Shock and after a wee but before any food/drink. This morning's was naked but after a cup of tea (and a shred session) but with one rather full boob as DD2 hasn't fed for the last few hours. I guess it's all related to gut contents etc adding weight but it is odd! Think I need to make Weds my new (and only) weigh day to stay motivated and not get disheartened!

runningLou · 19/03/2014 07:58

First ever FD here ... just detox herbal tea so far, gearing up for black coffee now. Am a bit apprehensive as am going to try to be low-sugar when my instinct would be to use all 500-600 cals on sugary stuff ... like 5 muller light yogurts!!
However I will not do this!
And ... OMG peanut butter - it's one of my favourite things ever but I had no idea how calorific it was until I started using MFP to track cals. Thought I'd had a healthy snack yesterday (NFD) with two low-fat rice cakes with a scraping of peanut butter (15g per rice cake) and a banana ... only to find the bloomin' peanut butter came in at 188 cals!!!! I could have had a whole bowl of cereal (my other fave thing!) for that.
So, the peanut butter will have to become a rare treat. Same with cups of hot chocolate ... sigh.

Megrim · 19/03/2014 07:58

Miffy bet the scale suddenly jumps down and you'll be the magic 10 stone something!

Eagle I'm sure my weight goes up around AF, I definitely feel a bit bloated so water retention would account for weight gain (1 Imperial pint weighs around 1lb 4oz). Good news is that it's only temporary weight gain.

Lab I hop on the scales most mornings, but only keep a note of my Sunday morning weigh in, and take measurements at the same time. Often the measurements go down when the scales haven't.

Runlikeareindeer · 19/03/2014 08:00

Sickness bug, infected by ds. So a very successful FD yesterday! Still feel delicate today, very dehydrated. Also worried as was warned if I had any more sick days before November they would move to stage 3 sack me :(

FridayJones · 19/03/2014 08:03

Trying hard not to trash my NFD here. I've blown out on lunch, had box of sushi instead of toasted cheese Sanger, who would have guessed I was doubling my calories swapping those ( actually I knew and did it anyway ).
Then had my long awaited hot cross bun when I got home.
Tried to keep dinner small but I've had to reduce my plans for half a bar of dark choc down to a quarter, and begrudgingly donate my 3 rd glass of wine to dp.
Wouldn't have even thought twice about it if I didn't have mfp tracking everything for me.
Oh, and I managed to make it back under 12 this morning. 11,13 yay. So 7lbs gone.
Still weigh 7lbs more than I did this time last year tho, so a ways to go yet before I hit uncharted territories.

BetsyBell · 19/03/2014 08:10

run brilliant. Soo, you'll get to infect everyone with a douch of D&V then - because that's a lot better than you taking a couple of days off [grrr]

It does make me cross that sort of arbitrary rule making.

Hope you feel a bit better today.

OP posts:
Helliecopter · 19/03/2014 08:17

Scales are notorious for their fluctuations and some people suggest banishing them to a dark cupboard to only drag out once a month, never mind week...if at all! However as a recovering scaleaholic who used to weigh herself 3 times a day and chart the weights in a table for comparison, I don't think I could ever go without them totally. I've a much healthier attitude towards them now, especially as I've lost 9lbs in almost 4 weeks!
7th FD yesterday went very well and as I always weigh the morning after a FD (that's my thing twice a week, honestly I do have a healthier relationship with the scales than I used to have!)

Thinking about breakfast now as I'm feeling hungry - just trying not to inhale cake that's staring at me on the island....

Ah zed sorry about your cake sort-of disaster. Oven temp maybe? Over mixed batter? My mum taught me you've got to be in a good mood to bake a cake and I find that's true! If I'm rushing or feeling crappy, my cakes never turn out as well. But sometimes they just don't work for an undiagnosed reason!

Erm runlikeareindeer can they do that? Surely they don't want you in work passing a sickness bug to everyone else?

Overtiredmum · 19/03/2014 08:39

Morning all!

NFD here today after a successful first FD. Not hungry yet but I don't normally get to work til half 9, so breakfast is usually around 10. I've calculated 85% of my TDEE so saving some for weekend, just in case, comes to 1622, which is far more than I would ever consume following MFP when trying to lose weight before. I would normally get 1200, plus roughly 180 for doing 20 minutes of jillian michaels, so feeling slightly apprehensive that I will feel like I am stuffing my face Shock

Damn temperature gauge in my "piece of crap" car is playing up - why does this always happen when I think everything is starting to smooth out Confused

On a separate note - it's Wednesday, nearly half way through the week, oh I now I have TOTM to contend with - meh!

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 19/03/2014 08:43

Hi everyone

I used to 5:2 when it first appeared on here, but don't tend to keep it (or anything!) up longterm. So, predictably, I'm back again! I need to learn to stick at things. So first FD of the year for me today.

Currently at 11st, which is the highest I've ever been. Had a health check at the doctors the other day, and it's quite depressing to see the weight creep up a couple of lbs every year. Never goes back down again. So, I'm back, with a realistic aim of 10st, and an ideal weight of 9 1/2, but I haven't got that low for a good 8 or 9 years. Want to be back in my size 10s for summer, I'm slowly creeping towards the 14s at the minute.

Good luck to everyone today!